Bears Hire Ryan Poles as GM & Matt Eberflus as HC

[Heinz D.]

15 hours ago, topwop1 said:

I don't know why people are so opposed to the idea. He's exactly the type of leader this team needs.

Because he's crazy, and kind of a flake. He's basically Josh McDaniel in Wal-Mart khakis. Also, his offense in San Francisco was SO RPO heavy that it would almost certainly get Fields killed.

I'd prefer Fields to stay alive. 

[JAF-N72EX]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Also, his offense in San Francisco was SO RPO heavy that it would almost certainly get Fields killed.

You talk as if that's a bad thing. Ryan Day ran alot of RPOs with Fields at OSU which is what the Bears scheme needs to be in order to utilize Fields' strengths and a deep backfield similar to Cam, Stewart, and Williams in Carolina and Tyrod, McCoy and Gislee in Buffalo w/ anthony Lynn and Greg Roman. The RPO can open up alot in both pass and run when you have an athletic QB complimented by two dynamic backs. Especially when the QB is already accustomed to it.

And running an RPO doesn't mean a QB is going to get killed either. The play call just needs to be done at the right time and the QB needs to recognize the blitz, make the right pre-snap reads, and shift his OL when needed.

That said, I'm not a fan of Harbaugh as a HC. Special Teams....I'm all for it. His coaching record and being a former player doesn't mean anything -- see Matt Nagy. SF were largely carried by a defense led by Vic Fangio ---also see Matt Nagy.

 

[abstract_thought]

1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

His coaching record and being a former player doesn't mean anything -- see Matt Nagy.

This is a pretty disingenuous comparison.

Nagy is 32-27 with no playoff wins. Harbaugh was 44-19-1 with 5 playoff wins. Harbs also brought along a young Colin Kaepernick. And Harbaugh's history as a player is way more extensive than Nagy's.

1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

SF were largely carried by a defense led by Vic Fangio ---also see Matt Nagy.

SF was top 10 in Offense DVOA in 2012 and 2013. Bears under Nagy have never been higher than 20th.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

You talk as if that's a bad thing. Ryan Day ran alot of RPOs with Fields at OSU which is what the Bears scheme needs to be in order to utilize Fields' strengths and a deep backfield similar to Cam, Stewart, and Williams in Carolina and Tyrod, McCoy and Gislee in Buffalo w/ anthony Lynn and Greg Roman. The RPO can open up alot in both pass and run when you have an athletic QB complimented by two dynamic backs. Especially when the QB is already accustomed to it.

 

Highly agree with this. I think there is enough evidence to support that the playstyle doesn't matter as much as the execution of that playstyle. NE has been able to make consistent 15 yard passes and the WRs often don't go down immediately. TEN had a monster RB and was able to run consistently against a stacked box. BAL has been able to do a ton of RPOs and use their QB as a primary runner, etc.

Do something REALLY well and make that your staple, and then just be able to branch off of that. Leach Air Raid or Navy triple option, just get players that fit that style and get a staff to get them to execute.

Of course there will be adaptation needed as time goes on, but that is why you master one style and then can adapt from that. Nagy refuses to focus on actual execution, he thinks 300 plays known and none mastered beats 60 plays known and 40 plays mastered.

[Sugashane]

33 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

This is a pretty disingenuous comparison.

Nagy is 32-27 with no playoff wins. Harbaugh was 44-19-1 with 5 playoff wins. Harbs also brought along a young Colin Kaepernick. And Harbaugh's history as a player is way more extensive than Nagy's.

SF was top 10 in Offense DVOA in 2012 and 2013. Bears under Nagy have never been higher than 20th.

Their offense was also never meant to be super explosive, but rather beat the defense down with a punishing OL and run game. Frank Gore was a battering ram, Davis was an athlete but never the receiver he was hoped to be, and his best receiver at any point was either Crabtree (hell of a number two but not a real number one) or Anquan Boldin (who was 33 his first season in SF). One year Bruce Smith was the 3rd most targeted player.

We have had more receiving talent here in Chicago since 2018 than they had.

That defense would be the strength of 31 teams in the NFL every year. Keeping them fresh with TOP being in SF's favor only meant they were able to keep their best players fresher, and more effective.

[Sugashane]

14 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Roman & Leftwich would be decent hires especially since I feel they could bring really solid staffs with them but they aren't the knock it out the park type of appointment we should be looking to make...only those 4 guys would be IMO...

No way Harbaugh is ready to give up coaching...way too much fire there...if we even got 10 years out of him and for him to develop a young guy to take over from him that would be ideal.

Bring in Jim and tell him he's able to groom his son Jay to be his successor. Becomes a ST coach (part of his role now) and Ast Head Coach.

Technically he is 1-0 against his old man too. 😄

[JAF-N72EX]

10 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

This is a pretty disingenuous comparison.

Nagy is 32-27 with no playoff wins. Harbaugh was 44-19-1 with 5 playoff wins. Harbs also brought along a young Colin Kaepernick. And Harbaugh's history as a player is way more extensive than Nagy's.

SF was top 10 in Offense DVOA in 2012 and 2013. Bears under Nagy have never been higher than 20th.

Whats disingenuous is pretending his offense was the reason for their success.

[JAF-N72EX]

13 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Highly agree with this. I think there is enough evidence to support that the playstyle doesn't matter as much as the execution of that playstyle. NE has been able to make consistent 15 yard passes and the WRs often don't go down immediately. TEN had a monster RB and was able to run consistently against a stacked box. BAL has been able to do a ton of RPOs and use their QB as a primary runner, etc.

Do something REALLY well and make that your staple, and then just be able to branch off of that. Leach Air Raid or Navy triple option, just get players that fit that style and get a staff to get them to execute.

Of course there will be adaptation needed as time goes on, but that is why you master one style and then can adapt from that. Nagy refuses to focus on actual execution, he thinks 300 plays known and none mastered beats 60 plays known and 40 plays mastered.

And going away from the few designed plays that actually do work lol.

Coaches have been bringing more and more college scheme in the NFL for the last 20 years. Some have worked like the spread offense and RPOs while others like the read-option haven't simply because NFL D-lines are too strong upfront. But as you said, theoretically any system can work if it's coached the right way, but this is generally were alot of coaches have a hard time with.

[Heinz D.]

2 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

You talk as if that's a bad thing. 

It is.

2 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Ryan Day ran alot of RPOs with Fields at OSU which is what the Bears scheme needs to be in order to utilize Fields' strengths and a deep backfield similar to Cam, Stewart, and Williams in Carolina and Tyrod, McCoy and Gislee in Buffalo w/ anthony Lynn and Greg Roman. The RPO can open up alot in both pass and run when you have an athletic QB complimented by two dynamic backs. Especially when the QB is already accustomed to it.

We're talking about the NFL, not college. And Fields is a spectacular passer. Very close to a cannon for an arm, and his accuracy can/will border on the ridiculous. He doesn't need an RPO heavy scheme whatsoever.

And running the ball so much has basically destroyed Cam Newton's career. I have no earthly idea how anyone could argue otherwise. 

2 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

That said, I'm not a fan of Harbaugh as a HC. Special Teams....I'm all for it. His coaching record and being a former player doesn't mean anything -- see Matt Nagy. SF were largely carried by a defense led by Vic Fangio ---also see Matt Nagy.

We're in total agreement on this one. Keep any Harbaugh not named John far away from Halas Hall. 

57 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

SF was top 10 in Offense DVOA in 2012 and 2013. Bears under Nagy have never been higher than 20th.

Even in 2018, with Fangio here? I find that hard to believe. 

32 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I think there is enough evidence to support that the playstyle doesn't matter as much as the execution of that playstyle. NE has been able to make consistent 15 yard passes and the WRs often don't go down immediately. TEN had a monster RB and was able to run consistently against a stacked box. BAL has been able to do a ton of RPOs and use their QB as a primary runner, etc.

I think you're forgetting Harbaugh's 49er offense. And ignoring why he resigned and went back to the collegiate ranks. 

Also--Baltimore doesn't even come close to running a straight-up college scheme offensively. Which Harbaugh did in San Fran. 

32 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Nagy refuses to focus on actual execution, he thinks 300 plays known and none mastered beats 60 plays known and 40 plays mastered.

[Sugashane]

14 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

And going away from the few designed plays that actually do work lol.

Coaches have been bringing more and more college scheme in the NFL for the last 20 years. Some have worked like the spread offense and RPOs while others like the read-option haven't simply because NFL D-lines are too strong upfront. But as you said, theoretically any system can work if it's coached the right way, but this is generally were alot of coaches have a hard time with.

Step one is building the OL too. Expecting Whitehair to be the best player on your OL and for them to do well was asinine. I will always go back to the last Super Bowl the Bears were in. When Garza is your worst starting OL you've done pretty well (but still should be looking to improve or add competition at least). When Garza is your best OL you have completely neglected the group to the point you've damaged the QB, RBs, and WR's effectiveness altogether.

 

I know these coaches know way more about football than I do, I only played D3. But why can't they learn THIS? PHI having a great OL propped up the entire offense, even with Foles in the Super Bowl. DAL has a ton of talent across their OL, but when they were beat up there look at what happened last year. Dalton would have them as a top 10 offense with that OL and skill players intact. But we ignore OL because we have Leno and Massie as our bookends?

 

Rant over. No point in crying on here. lol

[Sugashane]

1 minute ago, Heinz D. said:

It is.

We're talking about the NFL, not college. And Fields is a spectacular passer. Very close to a cannon for an arm, and his accuracy can/will border on the ridiculous. He doesn't need an RPO heavy scheme whatsoever.

I wouldn't call him spectacular yet. He is uber-talented, but his passing still needs to improve. I mean he is a rookie so that's expected though.

1 minute ago, Heinz D. said:

And running the ball so much has basically destroyed Cam Newton's career. I have no earthly idea how anyone could argue otherwise. 

Cam ran like Tebow, he tried to run THROUGH defenders. I don't think anyone here wants Fields doing that. I'd be damn happy for him to get 5-8 yards and slide when defenders get close. Protecting himself is more important than a first down until the post-season.

1 minute ago, Heinz D. said:

Even in 2018, with Fangio here? I find that hard to believe. 

Our offense had an explosive stretch vs bad defenses but was trash vs good ones. Having 5-6 non-offensive TDs propped up the PPG somewhat too. With DVOA scoring against bad defenses isn't as big as against good ones.

1 minute ago, Heinz D. said:

I think you're forgetting Harbaugh's 49er offense. And ignoring why he resigned and went back to the collegiate ranks. 

No, it was pretty basic and played to Kaep's strengths. Kaep has never been a good passer but their cast was never impressive.

Harbaugh has had a hell of a lot more success than York and Baalke have since the split. I'd say Harbaugh has won that split in spades. And if you were told after averaging like 11 wins per year that these two dbags were trying to trade you to CLE, wouldn't you be pissed? I'd be livid.

Then they compared it to the Warriors firing Mark Jackson for Steve Kerr too.  Beyond incompetent.

Baalke is also the one who took the Jags job and decided Urban Meyer was the man to develop Lawrence. You know, because he is so well known for working on a QB's mechanics and timing. lol

From everything I have read they moved on from him, it wasn't mutual or his choice.

1 minute ago, Heinz D. said:

Also--Baltimore doesn't even come close to running a straight-up college scheme offensively. Which Harbaugh did in San Fran. 

Can you clarify how? Not being snarky, I genuinely don't understand.

I mean, Greg Roman was calling the plays in SF for years and now is in BAL. You work with what you have and the talent you have at QB. And I'd argue it is every bit a college offense like Meyer's was in FLA. It is an option-offense. They ran almost 200 more QB-designed runs or option plays than anyone else in the league. If there is a less traditional "pro style" offense I haven't seen one the last 2-3 years. Maybe since Tebow's time starting honestly. The only difference is it isn't a spread option offense, they just run heavy personnel instead.

Instead of spreading the defense out for passing lanes they try to bring everyone in to give Jackson more room to run outside.

1 minute ago, Heinz D. said:

Can only give one like, but would give a bonus one for the Supernatural gif. lol

[Madmike90]

Obviously much more goes into being a Head Coach than just having an awesome scheme and the ability to put your players in the right position to win but...

The Offences I would love here by far the most would be Dallas or New England's...both are so versatile and multiple it makes defences have to play on the back foot at all times because they both just throw so much at you in the run and pass game...

Tennessee today did everything to stop the run and put the game in Mac Jones' hands and the route combinations that NE ran gave him mostly wide open throws with multiple options...such a clever design in their routes...multiple times I saw 3 WRs look like they were running the same route then 2 did ran the same and 1 then broke into the space left by one of the other two who had cleared out the cover and that left Mac with such an easy read...just so smart...then as the game went on it became situational football with them just continuing to commit to the run to keep the Titans offence off the field and eventually it started to work and they still went over the 100 yard mark...

I still think Daboll is smart enough to build an offence like this with the talented upgrade he would get at RB but McDaniels & Moore have these offences ready to roll from day one...McDaniels maybe gets the edge over Moore here just because he is working with less talented players but still producing at a really high level.

[blkwdw13]

So any one that want Lincoln Riley, he's officailly out of the running with him going to USC.

[Madmike90]

Just now, blkwdw13 said:

So any one that want Lincoln Riley, he's officailly out of the running with him going to USC.

I was never in on Riley...something about him just doesn't scream NFL Head Coach at me...weird move him going to USC...apart from the boat load of money they must be paying him hahaha.

[blkwdw13]

Just now, Madmike90 said:

I was never in on Riley...something about him just doesn't scream NFL Head Coach at me...weird move him going to USC...apart from the boat load of money they must be paying him hahaha.

I wasn't either but some mentioned him, and I agree it seems like a weird to to go from Oklahoma to USC.