Jerry Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Forge said: In fairness, that didn't happen to Goff. Goff was at the very least on par this year with what he did last year on a much better team. He's never going to reach the heights that he had with Mcvay those first two years, but he's that 14-20 type QB which isn't the worst thing in the world. Jimmy G has the "it" factor in the regular season. Pretty bizarre what happens in the playoffs though. What didn't happen to Goff? I remember reading posts (maybe in the Raiders forum) that people were arguing that Goff was better than Stafford. 14-20 type is pretty bad. That's typically where you rank the worst QB veterans in the league. The 20-32 range is typically made up of busts and QBs in their first couple of years in the league. A lot of QBs have the "it" factor during the regular season. The 9ers need a better QB if they're ever going to truly compete for a SB title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, Jerry said: What didn't happen to Goff? I remember reading posts (maybe in the Raiders forum) that people were arguing that Goff was better than Stafford. 14-20 type is pretty bad. That's typically where you rank the worst QB veterans in the league. The 20-32 range is typically made up of busts and QBs in their first couple of years in the league. A lot of QBs have the "it" factor during the regular season. The 9ers need a better QB if they're ever going to truly compete for a SB title. Goff didn't "get exposed" going to a mediocre team. He was basically the same guy. I think people already knew what Goff was and I think people already know what Jimmy is. Anyone thinking either of those guys were top 10 QBs were just fooling themselves, and I don't think there are many who believe that. I think that they are both in that 14-20 range and I think that holds regardless of who they play for. I was simply disagreeing with the notion of a mediocre team "exposing them". I think that they are already exposed for what they are, tbh. 14-20 is pretty much your average QB. IF you want to bump that to 12, I don't think that is unreasonable either because while someone may prefer a guy like Tannehill over Goff / Jimmy, I'm really not sure how much of a demonstrative increase in performance or value he's going to give you. But even then you can look at guys you may put higher than that ( 10 / 11) and I don't know if they are actually difference makers compared to the 12-20 group. Skippy can stat you to death about a guy like Dak and that's a guy a lot of people view as a top 10 guy. I would argue that not a lot of QBs have the 'it' factor even during the regular season. But it really depends on what the definition you're using is. Guys like Jimmy can win a super bowl. But you're far more subject to the whims of randomness, have a much smaller margin for error, and you need to have the timing absolutely right. That means it has to be one of the low cap hit years of their contract and you have to surround them with a greatness at that time, and you kind of have to hope that those guys run it hot during the playoffs. Its not an ideal scenario, but not everyone is going to have Mahomes, so you work with what you have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 I think I misunderstood...I think maybe you were referencing stats getting exposed....maybe not necessarily the players lol. So scratch a good chunk of that first part as it's not really applicable lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Forge said: Goff didn't "get exposed" going to a mediocre team. He was basically the same guy. I think people already knew what Goff was and I think people already know what Jimmy is. Anyone thinking either of those guys were top 10 QBs were just fooling themselves, and I don't think there are many who believe that. I think that they are both in that 14-20 range and I think that holds regardless of who they play for. I was simply disagreeing with the notion of a mediocre team "exposing them". I think that they are already exposed for what they are, tbh. 14-20 is pretty much your average QB. IF you want to bump that to 12, I don't think that is unreasonable either because while someone may prefer a guy like Tannehill over Goff / Jimmy, I'm really not sure how much of a demonstrative increase in performance or value he's going to give you. But even then you can look at guys you may put higher than that ( 10 / 11) and I don't know if they are actually difference makers compared to the 12-20 group. Skippy can stat you to death about a guy like Dak and that's a guy a lot of people view as a top 10 guy. I would argue that not a lot of QBs have the 'it' factor even during the regular season. But it really depends on what the definition you're using is. Guys like Jimmy can win a super bowl. But you're far more subject to the whims of randomness, have a much smaller margin for error, and you need to have the timing absolutely right. That means it has to be one of the low cap hit years of their contract and you have to surround them with a greatness at that time, and you kind of have to hope that those guys run it hot during the playoffs. Its not an ideal scenario, but not everyone is going to have Mahomes, so you work with what you have. I think a lot of people would have argued that Goff was a top 10 QB during his first couple of years with the Rams and McVay. I agree with the rest of your post other than the end. Teams can do what the Rams did and trade for an upgrade at QB. Or you could always trade up to draft a QB. Just need to time it right and be willing to pull the trigger. But yeah, good post. Edited February 12, 2022 by Jerry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jerry said: I agree with the rest of your post other than the end. Teams can do what the Rams did and trade for an upgrade at QB. Or you could always trade up to draft a QB. Just need to time it right and be willing to pull the trigger. But yeah, good post. I think it's very telling that over the last 5 years, 3 of the most preeminent offensive minds in the NFL (Shanny, Reid, McVay) all had meh - competent level starting quarterbacks and did what they had to do to replace them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightspiral7 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 5 hours ago, Jerry said: What didn't happen to Goff? I remember reading posts (maybe in the Raiders forum) that people were arguing that Goff was better than Stafford. 14-20 type is pretty bad. That's typically where you rank the worst QB veterans in the league. The 20-32 range is typically made up of busts and QBs in their first couple of years in the league. A lot of QBs have the "it" factor during the regular season. The 9ers need a better QB if they're ever going to truly compete for a SB title. Pretty much why I called Jimmy G a poor man's Romo. Tony, too, had that "it" factor in the regular season, but lacked the ability to perform in the playoffs. Difference being that Romo actually was a QB good enough to win a SB if he had a good enough supporting cast. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 9 hours ago, Jerry said: What didn't happen to Goff? I remember reading posts (maybe in the Raiders forum) that people were arguing that Goff was better than Stafford. 14-20 type is pretty bad. That's typically where you rank the worst QB veterans in the league. The 20-32 range is typically made up of busts and QBs in their first couple of years in the league. A lot of QBs have the "it" factor during the regular season. The 9ers need a better QB if they're ever going to truly compete for a SB title. Baker and Lamar are among the typically worst QB veterans in the league? Because that's to me where they seemed to rank this past year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 hour ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: Baker and Lamar are among the typically worst QB veterans in the league? Because that's to me where they seemed to rank this past year. I’m not sure I’d use an exact cutoff in every season, but if you look at the league there are probably 15ish guys you’d put at “good or better”. The rest are either young QBs (Fields, Lawrence, Mac, Wilson) or guys veterans that you’re actively looking to replace (Jimmy, Teddy, Jones, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 10 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: Baker and Lamar are among the typically worst QB veterans in the league? Because that's to me where they seemed to rank this past year. Is your response in reference to their contract placement? I'm really not trying to get into ranking QBs in this thread. It's impossible and there are going to be differing opinions no matter what. I'm just trying to get my point across that I'd rather have Baker Mayfield than Jimmy G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninerjunkie Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 On 2/12/2022 at 4:03 PM, Tightspiral7 said: Pretty much why I called Jimmy G a poor man's Romo. Tony, too, had that "it" factor in the regular season, but lacked the ability to perform in the playoffs. Difference being that Romo actually was a QB good enough to win a SB if he had a good enough supporting cast. The man had TO,Witten and a Demarcus Ware led defense at one point and couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Jimmy did a lot more with a lot less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidPanther89 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 I feel like Jimmy G can execute an offense better and is more precise in his throws but Baker is better clutch player which is frankly a more important metric, plus he’s still young and developing. Jimmy G is pretty much is who he is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidPanther89 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 On 2/5/2022 at 11:05 PM, TecmoSuperJoe said: Baker has better arm talent for certain, and better potential. Yet even with that caveat he hasn't necessarily separated himself as a passer more so than Jimmy. If Baker was with Shanahan I don't necessarily think the 49ers have a better winning percentage this entire time, or would have won a Super Bowl. Something is just off with Baker that makes him play below the level he should be playing at. Well said. I think to a degree his size and mentality as a player has something to do with it. When he’s on he’s on fire but the Browns seem to ride or die on his momentum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Jimmy I’d a rich man’s Goff and Mayfield is probably worse than both of them or atleast Goff level but people are hanging onto his potential and rookie season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Baker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) Jimmy is better imo. Jimmy is an average to below average QB who happens to have the “IT” factor. Baker is an average to below average QB who doesn’t. Gotta’ give Jimmy the edge. I think Odell looking legit on the Rams is going to serve as the catalyst that sends Baker into the realm of the journeymen. All the players unbridled support of Odell since he forced his way off the Browns in an ugly way is an indictment on Baker. Edited February 16, 2022 by ThatJaxxenGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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