Jordan Davis

[warfelg]

12 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

You're automatically assuming that the OL can get past his 34" arms. You're assuming he's going to allow them to get close and get their meat hooks on him. In football, you teach your short guys to rip and your y'all guys to swim or club to knock OL hands off you. He's not a perfect prospect but he's pretty refined in taking on blocks. Georgia was so well schooled in understanding and attacking blocking schemes.

I’m well aware of all of that. It’s still a concern to me that he plays tall and at 6’6” it means guys can get leverage on him easily if he continues to play at a high pad level. 

[armsteeld]

Just now, warfelg said:

I’m well aware of all of that. It’s still a concern to me that he plays tall and at 6’6” it means guys can get leverage on him easily if he continues to play at a high pad level. 

Power trumps technique. NFL level football is always a give take relationship but you want your player giving more than he's taking (@$$ whooping). I don't even know if the Steelers brass has met him yet.

[SMashMouthMike]

25 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Power trumps technique. NFL level football is always a give take relationship but you want your player giving more than he's taking (@$$ whooping). I don't even know if the Steelers brass has met him yet.

Not against smart technique. That’s why Denver’s and Baltimore’s zbs destroyed our 3-4 lebeau fronts. U really had me until that statement. But still, with our ilb’s and wormley, I’d be ecstatic to draft Davis at 20. He won’t be there probably, but how many times did teams just gash us on 1st and 2nd downs? What were we ranked against the run, 31st or something?

Edited March 7, 2022 by SMashMouthMike

[armsteeld]

27 minutes ago, SMashMouthMike said:

Not against smart technique. That’s why Denver’s and Baltimore’s zbs destroyed our 3-4 lebeau fronts. U really had me until that statement. But still, with our ilb’s and wormley, I’d be ecstatic to draft Davis at 20. He won’t be there probably, but how many times did teams just gash us on 1st and 2nd downs? What were we ranked against the run, 31st or something?

That's not really technique you're referencing but rather scheme vs zone blocking offense. Zone flowing runs test the athleticism and discipline of a defense. One player overruns his gap, which changes due to the flow of blockers, and there is a hole for the RB to escape.

Davis, Tuitt, and Heyward will force the OL to spend more time blocking them which should give your LBs, if they're aggressive, the opportunity to come downhill and make plays on the RBs. Davis himself has cat-like quickness and can read the flow to make plays. Davis, Jones, and Farrell are my bigger disruptive type guys I like for the Steelers.

[SMashMouthMike]

3 hours ago, armsteeld said:

That's not really technique you're referencing but rather scheme vs zone blocking offense. Zone flowing runs test the athleticism and discipline of a defense. One player overruns his gap, which changes due to the flow of blockers, and there is a hole for the RB to escape.

Davis, Tuitt, and Heyward will force the OL to spend more time blocking them which should give your LBs, if they're aggressive, the opportunity to come downhill and make plays on the RBs. Davis himself has cat-like quickness and can read the flow to make plays. Davis, Jones, and Farrell are my bigger disruptive type guys I like for the Steelers.

That’s all true, except maybe the TUITT part. That’s even more of a reason draft Davis. We gave up 5 ypc last season! Pathetic! Worst in the league by far. Kc was next worse but gave up 4.8. Watch us pass on him if he’s there and bpa,  smh. Or worse, pass on him and then have an dominant afc team or division rival draft him. U say steelers brass hasn’t even met him?Good grief. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by SMashMouthMike

[jebrick]

This draft class is loaded with DTs and 5 techs the Steelers can use.  Travis Jones in the 2nd.  Ridgeway in the 4th,  Zac Carter in the 4th.  If Davis falls to 20, woot!  But there are plenty of others.

[Steeler Hitman]

21 hours ago, warfelg said:

And if the OL with better technique can get under and leverage him? Good night. Bring back Mt McCullers at that point. 

I get what you are saying Warfelg, but I think we see more potential, upside and reward than risk. There is a reason that this kid is being considered a first round choice and Mt. McCullers was a 6th rounder. This is not a Combine workout warrior who impressed, but someone who has some tape and success playing his position. Perfect? No, but I also don't think you ignore him simply because of his position. You typically get bit when you pass up or ignore a more talented player based on other, needs, position, etc.  The biggest difference between he and MT. McCullers (in my humble opinion) is that Davis has fire and seems motivated. I waited, and waited, and waited to see that of Big Dan. I was one of his biggest supporters, but he never seemed to turn the corner. I jumped off the Mt. McCullers train and landed with a huge thud or dud in his case.  

21 hours ago, armsteeld said:

You're automatically assuming that the OL can get past his 34" arms. You're assuming he's going to allow them to get close and get their meat hooks on him. In football, you teach your short guys to rip and your y'all guys to swim or club to knock OL hands off you. He's not a perfect prospect but he's pretty refined in taking on blocks. Georgia was so well schooled in understanding and attacking blocking schemes.

I think that all those things can be coached up. Cam wasn't who he is now, his first few years in the NFL either. He is going to lose a few, but I think win much more. You draft a player based on what type of pro he can be, not based on how great he was in college.  You can be a great college player and have a very low NFL ceiling.  I don't think that is the case here. This kid has a high ceiling. He has also exceeded the athletic/physical expectations.

20 hours ago, warfelg said:

I’m well aware of all of that. It’s still a concern to me that he plays tall and at 6’6” it means guys can get leverage on him easily if he continues to play at a high pad level. 

But doesn't that would hold true of any tall DL prospect?  Can he be coached to be a better NFL player than he was in college? To me that is what you are hoping that he answers as a top prospect. 

20 hours ago, armsteeld said:

Power trumps technique. NFL level football is always a give take relationship but you want your player giving more than he's taking (@$$ whooping). I don't even know if the Steelers brass has met him yet.

I am on your side of the argument, but I somewhat disagree with this statement.  A lot of technically sound guys out leverage, out smart or out hustle guys who who bigger, stronger, and more powerful.  You see this in one on one combat sports like Judo, Wrestling, Ju Jitsu, and boxing.  Technique can help anyone improve, talent, genetics, speed, strength, etc.  don't always make you better. This is also not the average guy. He is an exceptional talent and is also gifted with a rare combination of size, strength, and speed. He is not the same body type or position player as Haloti Ngata, but similar in that he has that rare combination of size, speed, and strength. He was the man among men! I think Davis has a shot of doing the same type of things. 

2 hours ago, jebrick said:

This draft class is loaded with DTs and 5 techs the Steelers can use.  Travis Jones in the 2nd.  Ridgeway in the 4th,  Zac Carter in the 4th.  If Davis falls to 20, woot!  But there are plenty of others.

I realize that this  draft class is very solid and deep in DL talent. There are several players that are going to make an impact in the NFL on the DL. I am not suggesting that he is the only option by any means. I am not going to lose my mind if he is drafted or not.  I just think that you have to follow your board once it is set. My biggest debate has been with those who have questioned drafting Jordan Davis not because of his talent, ability, upside, how the board falls, but because of his position and the fact he is more a two down NG based on his size and how he should translate to the NFL game. If he is the BPA at #20, I think you take him. I would!

[armsteeld]

@Steeler Hitmanwell said. Power does beat technique while technique can beat power. What happens when you have power & technique? You get the JJ Watt's, Aaron Donald's, Cam Heyward's etc... We did much combatives training in the Army where I was stationed. Some guys had better technique than I but I was much too powerful for them. I weighed 155lbs yet I was Olympic bench pressing 385lbs. I'd walk into a gym, not stretch, and start lifting 350lbs in sets of 4. I'm now paying for that because I have no cartilage in my shoulders (other forms of training tore my shoulders up). So I stand by power trumps technique 😂

[Steeler Hitman]

3 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

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@Steeler Hitmanwell said. Power does beat technique while technique can beat power. What happens when you have power & technique? You get the JJ Watt's, Aaron Donald's, Cam Heyward's etc...

That is the cream of the crop so to speak. Aaron Donald is not the average DT. TJ Watt is not the average Edge rusher. either of those two or anyone else elite are what we typically call a JAG (just a guy or just the average guy). I am not saying Jordan Davis is elite yet, but I am saying that his size, speed, strength, agility and everything rolled up makes him an elite prospect. If he continues to do the work, he can be very special and much more than just a guy. 

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We did much combatives training in the Army where I was stationed. Some guys had better technique than I but I was much too powerful for them. I weighed 155lbs yet I was Olympic bench pressing 385lbs.

Hence you are kind of proving my point. Not very many 155 pound guys can bench their own weight let alone nearly two and a half times it without the size/mass/girth. One of my best friends in HS was a freakishly strong guy who was like you weight and strength wise.  He, too, was a power lifter who weighed about 145 - 150, pounds, but could put up over 300 on the bench, could clean 200+  and 375+ squatting. He was still in high school.🥶 My friend Brian was also not what I would call average.

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I'd walk into a gym, not stretch, and start lifting 350lbs in sets of 4. I'm now paying for that because I have no cartilage in my shoulders (other forms of training tore my shoulders up). So I stand by power trumps technique😂

😂 I completely understand you there. My body reminds me of a lot of things I did in my younger days. My ankle, knee, and general all around "old man" pains get to me from years of heavy lifting, martial arts, combat sports, rugby, and football injuries.  Those days of going back out there when we heard, "Are you hurt or injured son?" "There is no tomorrow!" "You're not gonna let a little headache stop you?" "There are no do overs!" "Leave it all in the ring, on the field, or in the weight room!" I got blood, sweat, tears, ligaments, bone fragments and other things in a whole lot of places as well. 😂 BTW, a huge thank you to you and all who served that allowed me the opportunity to rise and sleep under the blanket of your protection!💯💥💙🧡

 

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, armsteeld said:

I weighed 155lbs yet I was Olympic bench pressing 385lbs. I'd walk into a gym, not stretch, and start lifting 350lbs in sets of 4.

Bet you still had good form 😉

[bigben07MVP]

I’ll say this on Davis. Clearly one of our biggest issues last year was not being able to stop the run. Drafting Davis, along with Alualu and Tuitt potentially coming back, you can rest assured that issue is taken care of. Not to mention drafting Davis greatly increases the chances that Bush returns to form imo, you’re helping to solve two issues in one.

Even if he ends up not being able to play 3rd downs? Who cares if he’s helping us get to 3rd and 7+ a lot more consistently. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by bigben07MVP

[SMashMouthMike]

2 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

I’ll say this on Davis. Clearly one of our biggest issues last year was not being able to stop the run. Drafting Davis, along with Alualu and Tuitt potentially coming back, you can rest assured that issue is taken care of. Not to mention drafting Davis greatly increases the chances that Bush returns to form imo, you’re helping to solve two issues in one.

Even if he ends up not being able to play 3rd downs? Who cares if he’s helping us get to 3rd and 7+ a lot more consistently. 

Yeah, who knows with Tuitt?  It would be nice to have an idea before the draft. Our ilb are maybe the worst pair I’ve seen in my lifetime. I doubt Davis gets passed Baltimore or San Diego though, but, if he does…I just hope the Steelers know what theyre doing if they pass on this guy. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by SMashMouthMike

[Steeler Hitman]

14 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

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I’ll say this on Davis. Clearly one of our biggest issues last year was not being able to stop the run. Drafting Davis, along with Alualu and Tuitt potentially coming back, you can rest assured that issue is taken care of.

Agree 100%. I think that either way you need more depth and talent to rotate along the front. The players are also getting older and typically, you can get more out of your DL by rotating them. 

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Not to mention drafting Davis greatly increases the chances that Bush returns to form imo, you’re helping to solve two issues in one.

When you keep blockers off of your ILB's, they should be making plays. This helps an athletic guy like Bush. I will say that he would benefit from learning the position more as well. If he can learn his craft better, that would help as well as his improved health from a year ago. 

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Even if he ends up not being able to play 3rd downs? Who cares if he’s helping us get to 3rd and 7+ a lot more consistently. 

That was my point as well. I think you can also do some creative things with a man that large, strong, agile, and fast. Don't put him in a box. Be creative and allow him to be disruptive. He makes the defense better. 

 

11 hours ago, SMashMouthMike said:

Y

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Yeah, who knows with Tuitt?

Definitely a concern even if he says that he is all in. I think you need to find some insurance for him.  Loudermilk and Wormley played much more than we would have  ideally liked.  

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It would be nice to have an idea before the draft. Our ilb are maybe the worst pair I’ve seen in my lifetime. I doubt Davis gets passed Baltimore or San Diego though, but, if he does…I just hope the Steelers know what they're doing if they pass on this guy. 

I am definitely in favor of drafting Davis, but only if he is the BPA when they pick. Because his position is somewhat undervalued, it could bode well for the Steelers. Rebuild this team in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Improve the OL to get Najee going consistently. Improve the defense to slow the game down and stop teams from shoving the ball down the defenses throat. There are a lot of ways and players who can help to that end. The Steelers need to be smart about how they do this. I think this team needs to go BPA or move down and add a pick or two. This draft will have some talent in the middle rounds 3-5. Hopefully they at least get a #4 comp pick for Bud.  

 

[SMashMouthMike]

Amen to all that. I just have my concerns that we’ll do the opposite and trade up to draft a QB🤦🏻‍♂️.

I don’t know if Davis can play 3 technique, I didn’t see it in college. But I see no reason he shouldn’t be able to. Georgia was stacked as hell too though. I thought I saw him playing 0, 1, and even some 2 technique. Steelers need to find out imo.  I could also see the Steelers maybe playing 2 technique with him and Heyward on running downs, so that our ILBs stay relatively clean without a NT in there, and Tuitt’s availability unknown and this being Alualu’s final season maybe. 2 techniques can wreck running games. (Remember the 2000 ravens?) That can’t be done with Wormley and a lot of traditional 5 or3 technique players, reliably at least. 
 

bottom line imo-The Steelers need to find out. Know, don’t guess, at how smart and coachable and disciplined this kid is. Know what techniques he’s best at and how many he can play right now. We know he’s a big quick freak that’s good/dominant against college guards and centers at stopping the run, but not much else. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by SMashMouthMike

[Livewire]

Definitely wouldn't mind at all if he is there and the Steelers take him.