43M Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Yeah but Terrell Davis was elite for like his entire (short) career. James Harrison had a prolonged career that was basically nothing outside of a short 4-5 year span. I think that's what bcb is trying to say here. Thats why I agreed about CAREERS. Im talking about PEAKS. Harrison didnt really even get a chance to start until he was 27 or 28....particularly because Cowher didnt trust him. He was elite for about 4 years and good to great for another 3 or 4. Point remains that if you compare Harrisons peak vs other edge rushers peaks, he is absolutely in the argument for being one of the most dominant edge guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, 43M said: Thats why I agreed about CAREERS. Im talking about PEAKS. Harrison didnt really even get a chance to start until he was 27 or 28....particularly because Cowher didnt trust him. He was elite for about 4 years and good to great for another 3 or 4. Point remains that if you compare Harrisons peak vs other edge rushers peaks, he is absolutely in the argument for being one of the most dominant edge guys. Yeah I mean if you compare Greg Zuerlein's peak to Justin Tucker's peak they're about the same, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, 43M said: Thats why I agreed about CAREERS. Im talking about PEAKS. Harrison didnt really even get a chance to start until he was 27 or 28....particularly because Cowher didnt trust him. He was elite for about 4 years and good to great for another 3 or 4. Point remains that if you compare Harrisons peak vs other edge rushers peaks, he is absolutely in the argument for being one of the most dominant edge guys. I mean Ahman green has the tenth highest rushing season in nfl history. Should we put him on top ten nfl rushers of all time lists based on peaks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, MWil23 said: DT for me and it's not close. Don't worry, I've got you 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: MY GOD Derrick Thomas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 My generation? Ware > Von Miller > Suggs as the top guys I can't really speak on the guys from the previous era, but obviously Derrick Thomas and Kevin Greene are worthy of conversation based on sack production Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Harrison ain't it.. I'd put Clay Matthews before Harrison And depending where Mack plays out, he has to get into this conversation somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Tk3 said: My generation? Ware > Von Miller > Suggs as the top guys I can't really speak on the guys from the previous era, but obviously Derrick Thomas and Kevin Greene are worthy of conversation based on sack production This take feels both accurate and dirty at the same time. I agree with you, but I also think this diminishes what Suggs and Von have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Just checking some stats for Derrick Thomas (who IMO is the easy answer here)... For nearly every three sacks, this dude forced a fumble. I'm sure he had some forced fumbles that didn't come from sacks, but that's insane to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 1:32 PM, bcb1213 said: I mean Ahman green has the tenth highest rushing season in nfl history. Should we put him on top ten nfl rushers of all time lists based on peaks Sure, whenever Ahman Green would have gotten the highest accolade for a player on their side of the ball, been a multiple time All-Pro, etc. This is a bad comparison. Not even arguing for Harrison overall, but this is as bad as an argument gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 6 hours ago, BlaqOptic said: Sure, whenever Ahman Green would have gotten the highest accolade for a player on their side of the ball, been a multiple time All-Pro, etc. This is a bad comparison. Not even arguing for Harrison overall, but this is as bad as an argument gets. Bad argument for a bad argument is the point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 1:20 PM, 43M said: Point remains that if you compare Harrisons peak vs other edge rushers peaks, he is absolutely in the argument for being one of the most dominant edge guys. Versus guys like Ware and Von? I’m not sure Harrison was ever quite like those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 1:26 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Yeah I mean if you compare Greg Zuerlein's peak to Justin Tucker's peak they're about the same, too. Zuerlein had a few elite years and good years sandwiched in between inconsistent ones. Harrison was consistently elite for 4 years and then injuries and age started catching up to him, but was still good Again, Im not arguing that Harrison should be a HOFer, had one of the best overall CAREERS or that he was the best behind LT. My point is, relative to the topic of the thread.....that between 2007-2010, Harrison was one of the absolute best 34 edge guys to ever play, especially if you factor in his overall game. 3 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Versus guys like Ware and Von? I’m not sure Harrison was ever quite like those. They had better overall careers, but at his best he was absolutely on their levels. Harrison was a UDFA and took several years to really get a chance, whereas Ware and Von were both blue chip NFL prospects that started immediately. Not a knock on them, just saying there were circumstances that led to them having better overall careers than Harrison. Neither had the coverage ability Harrison had. Not that Harrison was amazing, but for a 34 edge guy he was one of the better ones, which is why his sack numbers werent quite as high in several years. He dropped into coverage more than most 34 OLBs. Bottom line....Im not saying Harrison is the best. My initial comment was one basically dismissing Harrison from the conversation. Career wise....I agree. But for 3 or 4 years, he was very arguably a top 3 to 5 edge defender of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 7 hours ago, bcb1213 said: Bad argument for a bad argument is the point As I said before....if people are allowed to argue that Terrell Davis is one of the best RBs ever based on 4 elite seasons, then you can certainly make a similar argument for Harrison being one of the best 34 edge rushers of all time best on the same timeframe. NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT HARRISON'S CAREER IS AMONG THE ALL TIME GREATS, but if youre trying to determine who was simply the best players in general to ever play the position, then Harrison is absolutely in the conversation. If Patrick Mahomes retired tomorrow, you couldnt make the argument that he had one of the best careers ever....but you could still argue that he was one of the best QBs to ever play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 6 hours ago, 43M said: But for 3 or 4 years, he was very arguably a top 3 to 5 edge defender of all time. How do you figure? I mean, just production wise, you can toss that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 hours ago, 43M said: As I said before....if people are allowed to argue that Terrell Davis is one of the best RBs ever based on 4 elite seasons, then you can certainly make a similar argument for Harrison being one of the best 34 edge rushers of all time best on the same timeframe. NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT HARRISON'S CAREER IS AMONG THE ALL TIME GREATS, but if youre trying to determine who was simply the best players in general to ever play the position, then Harrison is absolutely in the conversation. If Patrick Mahomes retired tomorrow, you couldnt make the argument that he had one of the best careers ever....but you could still argue that he was one of the best QBs to ever play. Checks thread title *greatest of all time * Reads this post Doesn't compute You can't even argue Harrison was ever the best in the league in even a single season as he never even led the league in sacks and his top season in 2008 he was behind Joey Porter from a 3-4 olb perspective who also finished ahead of him in career stats he is above Harrison on the list too if again we are just talking about pass rushing I'm tired of this td talk to. No he's not in the greatest of all time discussion. Dan Fouts had four straight years of leading the league in passing. He is never mentioned in greatest of all time cause its a career based argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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