Do you know enough to give up on Deshone Kizer?

[bruceb]

26 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

That's not disagreeing with me that's a different point.

Why?

If he can't make reads, he can't make reads, regardless of who the coach/coaches is/are.

[Rod Johnson]

Just now, bruceb said:

Why?

If he can't make reads, he can't make reads, regardless of who the coach/coaches is/are.

First off that's a different point because that's something that's not relevant to what is "good for Deshone Kizer" which was the purpose of my post.  If he has some trouble making reads, evident by his time with Notre Dame and the Browns, one of the worst possible things for him would to be to change systems before fully grasping the one at hand.  Switching coaches without a doubt decreases his chance of survival in Cleveland.

Second it seems to me that making reads is heavily dependent on how well you know your plays, your experience running them against certain looks in practice and games...it's not can or can't, every QB makes a read every play whether it's the right, wrong, best, worst...and that's not developed instantaneously for anybody (although it's picked up faster by some).

[H2ThaIzzo]

2 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

First off that's a different point because that's something that's not relevant to what is "good for Deshone Kizer" which was the purpose of my post.  If he has some trouble making reads, evident by his time with Notre Dame and the Browns, one of the worst possible things for him would to be to change systems before fully grasping the one at hand.  Switching coaches without a doubt decreases his chance of survival in Cleveland.

Second it seems to me that making reads is heavily dependent on how well you know your plays, your experience running them against certain looks in practice and games...it's not can or can't, every QB makes a read every play whether it's the right, wrong, best, worst...and that's not developed instantaneously for anybody (although it's picked up faster by some).

Goff had the same problems last year in his rookie season with the Rams. He certainly looks like a different football player this season with McVay as his coach. 

[brownie man]

4 hours ago, bruceb said:

I made this point earlier in the season.

Hue didn't seem to understand that trying to make Kizer a hero was sinking both of them.

No use for Hue.

Wish there were a way to keep Williams and deep six Hue and most of the O staff.

1

 

Howd he try to make Kizer a hero?

You can watch Denver the rest of the year Brock is trash

You saw Cody this past weekend that **** was atrocious that **** was absolutely ******* terrible 

Kizer was the best option whether you think hes the guy or not he's the best option we've had since day one. 

I wish it wasnt the case but it was thats not Hue that just is what it is 

[Onizuka]

48 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

Goff had the same problems last year in his rookie season with the Rams. He certainly looks like a different football player this season with McVay as his coach. 

Exactly...this is why I keep stating that Hue did Kizer no favors. He stated to the media that he was not going to change up his offense for Kizer, which to me is stupid considering Kizer being a 21 year old rookie. It's hard to evaluate Kizer because he wasn't getting much help earlier and I felt often he was trying to do too much, hence holding on to the ball too long when he saw no one was open.

Kizer looked night and day vs the Lions, that extra week of preparation and his receivers/RBs finally helping him out. I wouldn't say his confidence was totally shaken, but, seeing your receivers constantly drop balls that hit them in the numbers or their hands, had to be frustrating. I'm hoping we continue to see him trend upward for the rest of the season so we can get a better idea about him, although the Jax CBs are probably going to own our receivers...hoping our defense can return the favor lol.

[AkronsWitness]

First, he showed tremendous improvement this week which is the first time I can say I have seen a young Browns QB learn and show development as the season progresses.

He is learning from his mistakes which is good and the bye week really seemed to allow him to catch up on all of the improvements that needed to be made.

Lets just hope he keeps showing that the Lions game wasnt an one and done performance and continues this path of progression each game. That would make me feel great heading into next season if he finishes the last 7 games strong.

[ditchdigger]

10 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

You're freaking crazy to believe that.  A change of staff would be the worst possible thing for Kizer.  With 2 high draft picks that means he'll be kicked to the curb for somebody else.  Best case scenario he has to start from ground zero and learn another offense.  Making reads seems to be a struggle for him, something he's gotten better at the last few weeks.  Kiss that goodbye with a new coach. 

He just turned 21.  There's time to fix him, but he won't get fixed under Hue, and it might not be in Cleveland.

It would do him wonders, maybe not the team.  It might be best for the team to move on to a better QB.

If he stays here, and I hope that he does, he's going to have to have better competition in training camp next year than he did this year.  It might suit him well to be the backup for a while.

[MWil23]

Best synopsis that I've read so far that put my thoughts on Kizer into words:

 

Quote

 

There’s no real need to sugar coat it: Kizer has been an unmitigated disaster. In eight starts, the rookie out of Notre Dame has thrown for 1,376 yards, four touchdowns, and 12 interceptions (worst in the NFL), while averaging a paltry 5.5 yards per attempt (second worst) and 172.0 pass yards per game (32nd out of 34 qualifying starters). His 52.8 completion percentage ranks 34th out of 36 quarterbacks; his 54.4 passer rating ranks 36th out of 36. He’s 33rd out of 33 in DVOA, and 35th out of 37 per Pro Football Focus grading. Look, there’s nothing in those numbers that stands out as even remotely good, folks.

Of course, it’s hard to separate Kizer’s poor play from what’s been borderline coaching malpractice by Hue Jackson and the Browns organization. Instead of either: (1) giving their 21-year-old rookie passer (the youngest starting passer in the NFL) a year or two to learn the offense and develop in it before throwing him out to the wolves, or (2) starting him immediately while understanding he’ll need to take his bumps and catch up to the speed of the pro game, the team has instead gone with Option 3: systematically ruining his confidence by first throwing him to the wolves and then benching him immediately (on two separate occasions) when he makes a mistake.

 

 

[MSURacerDT55]

30 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Best synopsis that I've read so far that put my thoughts on Kizer into words:

 

 

Basically putting all of the Browns ills on the kid, nice.

[Rod Johnson]

10 hours ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

Goff had the same problems last year in his rookie season with the Rams. He certainly looks like a different football player this season with McVay as his coach. 

Jared Goff

Aka the 1st overall pick

Who didn't notoriously have these issues in college

And was assured another chance with a change in coaching staff

Not really care comparable.

Y'all are missing the point with a new coach Kizer experiment is likely done.

 

[Rod Johnson]

41 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Best synopsis that I've read so far that put my thoughts on Kizer into words:

 

 

I don't think Kizer's confidence is shattered he's just had his best 2 games as a pro.

[MWil23]

19 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Basically putting all of the Browns ills on the kid, nice.

No, the entire 2nd paragraph blames the entire coaching staff for the way that they've handled him as well.

[MSURacerDT55]

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

No, the entire 2nd paragraph blames the entire coaching staff for the way that they've handled him as well.

The issue I have is that article totally ignores the fact that we have by far the most drops in the NFL and all of those numbers these guys so eloquently posted are all a direct result of those drops.

[MWil23]

11 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

The issue I have is that article totally ignores the fact that we have by far the most drops in the NFL and all of those numbers these guys so eloquently posted are all a direct result of those drops.

Not ALL 12 INT are a result of drops.

Not ALL of the woeful 52% completion % are due to drops.

Audibling to a QB sneak without a timeout from your own 3 yard line with under 15 seconds left isn't because of drops.

Ranking 32nd out of 34 in yards per game isn't due to drops.

His last in the NFL 54.4 rating isn't due solely to drops.

The WR are HORRIFIC and a contributing factor, but to refuse to put a good portion of the blame on Kizer is unfair as well.

[MSURacerDT55]

6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Not ALL 12 INT are a result of drops.

Not ALL of the woeful 52% completion % are due to drops.

Audibling to a QB sneak without a timeout from your own 3 yard line with under 15 seconds left isn't because of drops.

Ranking 32nd out of 34 in yards per game isn't due to drops.

His last in the NFL 54.4 rating isn't due solely to drops.

The WR are HORRIFIC and a contributing factor, but to refuse to put a good portion of the blame on Kizer is unfair as well.

Bro, we are debating the same thing, Kizer deserves a lion's share of blame, but he is a rookie and we need to stop hold him to the same standard of a 8 year vet on his second contract, those receivers outside of Njoku aren't rookies and supposedly have one of the best WR coaches around. My point is if we even got to the middle of the pack in drops, his numbers would be a lot more respectable, and be can PINPOINT what Kizer's faults are due to the mistakes he makes and not what comes as a result of a historically bad receiving corps. And we probably would have a win or even two