Sllim Pickens Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 20 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: I doubt it'd be much more than just the draft pick. Zion has averaged 29 games per season. You don't have superstar value at that point to warrant a top 3 draft pick in a 3 player draft + more assets. No one denies this man's talent, but him making max money and only playing 35% of the season is a killer to roster building. If they can get more than just #2/#3, then New Orleans should absolutely jump on it IMO. Embiid played 23.5 games a season his first four seasons. And has averaged 56 a season after his first two seasons. If a team has a medical staff that trusts that his injuries are not chronic, he would have value. The injuries have all been different injuries so its not like he has a bad knee that will continue to degenerate over time. I get he is a headache and its been frustrating but I would rather have faith in my medical staff to get him right than end up swapping him for one pick and potentially getting a Jalen Green/James Wiseman/RJ Barrett type player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 13 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Embiid played 23.5 games a season his first four seasons. And has averaged 56 a season after his first two seasons. If a team has a medical staff that trusts that his injuries are not chronic, he would have value. The injuries have all been different injuries so its not like he has a bad knee that will continue to degenerate over time. I get he is a headache and its been frustrating but I would rather have faith in my medical staff to get him right than end up swapping him for one pick and potentially getting a Jalen Green/James Wiseman/RJ Barrett type player. I can easily flip this. Greg Oden couldn't get healthy. If you have a scouting department you trust to evaluate players, wouldn't you want to swap Oden for a Luka Doncic/Jayson Tatum/Brandon Ingram type player? I understand not wanting to trade Zion because he is a force on the court, but you don't get a lot of chances at a top 3 pick and ability to reset your salary cap books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 minute ago, seminoles1 said: I can easily flip this. Greg Oden couldn't get healthy. If you have a scouting department you trust to evaluate players, wouldn't you want to swap Oden for a Luka Doncic/Jayson Tatum/Brandon Ingram type player? I understand not wanting to trade Zion because he is a force on the court, but you don't get a lot of chances at a top 3 pick and ability to reset your salary cap books. Yes, but the flip side is easily the exception, not the rule. Finding the 1 or 2 super stars in the draft each year is hard, its a crap shoot and even those elite prospects fail. If I could see into the future and Scoot is prime D Rose without injuries, sure, you make the deal. But if you move him and he becomes Lonzo Ball, you made a huge mistake. And as I said, Oden had knee issues the degenerative, so if medicals turn out that Zion will continue to fall apart, make the move. But given his injury history has been 4 different things keeping him out, I would play the odds of him being healthy over the odds that anyone in this draft is a super star outside of Vic. If his attitude is crap and he forces his way out like AD did, again maybe its addition by subtraction. But I would rather spend more on the best trainers and kinesiologists money can buy to work with him than give up on someone who has proven he is a top 10 talent when healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Would a three team deal work between the Hornets/Pels/Pistons? I'd gladly take him if he is on a discount like that. Cade/Ivey/Zion/Duren sounds fun. Detroit Gets: Zion Pick 14 Charlotte Gets: Pick 5 James Wiseman Future pick from Detroit and/or Killian Hayes or Marvin Bagley Pels get: PIck 2 Future pick from Detroit and/or Killian Hayes or Marvin Bagley Bojan Bogdanovic Charlotte moves down and has a choice of wings that fit better (Whitmore), a future pick, a C to compete with Williams and/or PG/PF depth. Pels get Scoot and a vet SF that can help out now and/or a solid young backup PG in Hayes. Pistons get Zion and draft Leonard Miller/Hood-Schafino/Coulibaly etc and clear out some of the congestion on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 On 6/12/2023 at 8:05 AM, Kingram said: Andre Jackson is a Derrick White clone coming out. He's going to be a really good player. Needs to get that 3 point shot to go down more frequently and in general needs to probably redo his shooting motion. Will make his living on defense and cutting to the basket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 10 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Would a three team deal work between the Hornets/Pels/Pistons? I'd gladly take him if he is on a discount like that. Cade/Ivey/Zion/Duren sounds fun. Detroit Gets: Zion Pick 14 Charlotte Gets: Pick 5 James Wiseman Future pick from Detroit and/or Killian Hayes or Marvin Bagley Pels get: PIck 2 Future pick from Detroit and/or Killian Hayes or Marvin Bagley Bojan Bogdanovic Charlotte moves down and has a choice of wings that fit better (Whitmore), a future pick, a C to compete with Williams and/or PG/PF depth. Pels get Scoot and a vet SF that can help out now and/or a solid young backup PG in Hayes. Pistons get Zion and draft Leonard Miller/Hood-Schafino/Coulibaly etc and clear out some of the congestion on the roster. I don't think Detroit only giving away their retreads and dropping back 9 picks gets them Zion. They'd need to include future 1sts for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 32 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Yes, but the flip side is easily the exception, not the rule. Finding the 1 or 2 super stars in the draft each year is hard, its a crap shoot and even those elite prospects fail. If I could see into the future and Scoot is prime D Rose without injuries, sure, you make the deal. But if you move him and he becomes Lonzo Ball, you made a huge mistake. And as I said, Oden had knee issues the degenerative, so if medicals turn out that Zion will continue to fall apart, make the move. But given his injury history has been 4 different things keeping him out, I would play the odds of him being healthy over the odds that anyone in this draft is a super star outside of Vic. If his attitude is crap and he forces his way out like AD did, again maybe its addition by subtraction. But I would rather spend more on the best trainers and kinesiologists money can buy to work with him than give up on someone who has proven he is a top 10 talent when healthy. And Embiid recovering from his injury issues is also the exception, not the rule. Zion has weight issues with lower body injuries and relies on his strength and athleticism to doninate. He's had 5 straight years of injuries. That's not a cause for concern? This isn't just 5 small, minor injuries completely unrelated to one another. To suggest otherwise is wrong. The draft is obviously a crap shoot, but so is betting on an injury riddled player to not continue having injuries. I don't blame anyone who'd want to keep Zion. But I'd rather start fresh than hope a 5 year trend flips the other way as long as the compensation is fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 8 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: And Embiid recovering from his injury issues is also the exception, not the rule. Zion has weight issues with lower body injuries and relies on his strength and athleticism to doninate. He's had 5 straight years of injuries. That's not a cause for concern? This isn't just 5 small, minor injuries completely unrelated to one another. To suggest otherwise is wrong. The draft is obviously a crap shoot, but so is betting on an injury riddled player to not continue having injuries. I don't blame anyone who'd want to keep Zion. But I'd rather start fresh than hope a 5 year trend flips the other way as long as the compensation is fair. Its a 4 year trend, and his second year he played 7 less games than Embiids best season to date so technically its a two year trend. Zion had a knee injury that kept him out until December his rookie year. He played fine on it when he returned. The next year, he played 61 games and a hand injury knocked him out down the stretch with the Pels out of the playoff race so they rested him the final 6 games. The next year he missed due to a foot issue. Which was completely healed as he showed early this year. This year he missed time due to a hamstring injury. Every year was something different. Is the hamstring likely related to missing time and poor conditioning, probably. But can that be fixed? Probably. I get how frustrating he is, and someone his size is likely going to recover slower, which again is frustrating. But thats where I say spend more on personal trainers and programs to help prevent them. I am sure the Pels have a good person in that role, but maybe he is the wrong person for someone of Zions body type. There are specialists, and they should find the best one to maximize their investment. If his slow recovery is strictly an attitude issue and he isn't trying to get back and he is causing issues in the locker room, thats a different story. But my guess is most of these injuries he could have played down the stretch if needed but the Pels weren't doing anything anyways so patience is the way to go, and helps their draft slots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingram Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 50 minutes ago, agarcia34 said: Needs to get that 3 point shot to go down more frequently and in general needs to probably redo his shooting motion. Will make his living on defense and cutting to the basket. Same issues White had coming out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingram Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Zion isn't getting traded. Especially for Scoot Henderson lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said: Would a three team deal work between the Hornets/Pels/Pistons? I'd gladly take him if he is on a discount like that. Cade/Ivey/Zion/Duren sounds fun. Detroit Gets: Zion Pick 14 Charlotte Gets: Pick 5 James Wiseman Future pick from Detroit and/or Killian Hayes or Marvin Bagley Pels get: PIck 2 Future pick from Detroit and/or Killian Hayes or Marvin Bagley Bojan Bogdanovic Charlotte moves down and has a choice of wings that fit better (Whitmore), a future pick, a C to compete with Williams and/or PG/PF depth. Pels get Scoot and a vet SF that can help out now and/or a solid young backup PG in Hayes. Pistons get Zion and draft Leonard Miller/Hood-Schafino/Coulibaly etc and clear out some of the congestion on the roster. the only pick we can trade is 2029 and killian, bagley, and wiseman are worthless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 16 minutes ago, Kingram said: Zion isn't getting traded. Especially for Scoot Henderson lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingram Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, catcheryea said: I can pretty safely say never. Zions injuries stink but you aren't trading a generational talent for a guy you pray can become 70% of Zion, albeit healthy. He was in great shape last year and had a fluke hamstring injury. If he hurt his knee or foot again I'd be concerned, but hamstrings are flukey and linger. If he gets hurt again this year and misses 30+ games the Pelicans should think long and hard about his future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, catcheryea said: the only pick we can trade is 2029 and killian, bagley, and wiseman are worthless I'd trade that 29 pick then, and move Bogey to the Hornets who need a 3 to teach Whitmore or whoever they like at 5 and take of pick 14. Moving down 3 spots in a draft if they dont love Miller/Scoot is not a far drop and they get a little for it. Wiseman/Bagley/Hayes don't have value as potential superstars but value as depth. I get we as Pistons fans are over them, albeit Wiseman would fit much better if we didn't have Duren and is an expiring if you don't want to extend him. Same with Hayes, except he would be better than any PG NO has aside from Scoot and would be a solid backup for Ball. I don't think they are super valuable, but they have enough to fill in the gaps. Bagley is a decent 5th/6th option and is slightly overpaid but again its his fit on our roster that's the bigger issue than him not being productive. He would be a solid replacement for Zion in NO or at least a quality 6th man to come in at PF or C off the bench. In Charlotte, he would be battling PJ Washington for the starting spot and probably would win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 12 minutes ago, Kingram said: I can pretty safely say never. Zions injuries stink but you aren't trading a generational talent for a guy you pray can become 70% of Zion, albeit healthy. He was in great shape last year and had a fluke hamstring injury. If he hurt his knee or foot again I'd be concerned, but hamstrings are flukey and linger. If he gets hurt again this year and misses 30+ games the Pelicans should think long and hard about his future. a soft tissue injury on a guy whose game relies on top 1% explosiveness who has historically struggled with his weight that had at least one setback and couldn't get healthy in 4 months isn't something i would totally disregard going forward 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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