Week #3 GDT: Raiders @ Titans: No Polls, No Frills, Just Holes to Fill

[Jeremy408]

 

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Built to compete now according to who and what do you mean by compete now?  Win a SB?  I believe that is an unrealistic expectation.  If this is a team that shows progression and growth throughout the season?  I would be happy with that. 

If they go 10 and 7 and miss the playoffs would that be consider that a wasted season?  Let's say they finish 10 and 7, squeak into the playoffs, would that be considered a success?  Context is key and to make a blanketed statement like "playoffs are the barometer of success" is lazy, lacking context and not well thought out.  

Is a SB run on a roster that has been completely blown up realistic or a fan pipe dream?  I believe it is a pipe dream.

I understand JM and DZ coming in, wanting to changing culture, getting their players and wanting to be competitive now, which I feel they will when the season is finished but to expect these two to work "Super Bowl" miracles on a team that was so devoid of overall roster talent and depth is an unrealistic expectation. 

Is the 0 and 2 start ****ty, yes it is but I am not shocked. Do I expect this team to be competitive all season and show continued growth and progression, yes I do.  

Like I have said in my prior post, writing off the season right now, overreacting and making assumptions on how this team will finish is foolish.  I am reserving judgment until after this season to give my assessment on how the season has played out and how JM/DZ have done.  

I'm not even talking about playoffs of the Barometer of success. I'm saying this is not a rebuild that's the bottom line. 

-Roster moves don't indicate that it's a rebuild

-Hire doesn't indicate that it's a rebuild

The only thing that allows for a built-in excuses is that we're 0-2. So now people can come in and say "yeah but the point was never to win this year we're rebuilding."

It's pretty obvious that from the hiring of Josh McDaniels to the trading for Davante Adams the goal was to build on last year which was 10-7. If we were to get to tend and seven and not make the playoffs it would be disappointing(because we have better players than last year) but it would be understandable. If we go 9–8 or below(with better players and the money all tied up) then that doesn't work. Nobody can deny that. 

[agarcia34]

Jacobs to play today 

[big_palooka]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

 

I'm not even talking about playoffs of the Barometer of success. I'm saying this is not a rebuild that's the bottom line. 

-Roster moves don't indicate that it's a rebuild

-Hire doesn't indicate that it's a rebuild

The only thing that allows for a built-in excuses is that we're 0-2. So now people can come in and say "yeah but the point was never to win this year we're rebuilding."

It's pretty obvious that from the hiring of Josh McDaniels to the trading for Davante Adams the goal was to build on last year which was 10-7. If we were to get to tend and seven and not make the playoffs it would be disappointing(because we have better players than last year) but it would be understandable. If we go 9–8 or below(with better players and the money all tied up) then that doesn't work. Nobody can deny that. 

I can deny that. Comparing one season to the next is a fools errand. And why I think so many fans expectations are out of whack here.

Every season is different. Teams evolve, there is attrition, new coaching staffs, etc. Titans were the #1 seed last year, now their in a dog fight to not start 0-3. Bengals went to the Superbowl, they are 0-2 and the millions spent on the Oline are not producing yet. Things change. 

The Raiders won a lot of close games last year. That is not sustainable. Now they need to learn how to put games away, something Carr has not been able to do throughout his career. 

For me, this team is a fringe playoff team and this is really the year for this staff to evaluate Carr. He will be a big part of where the team ends up. 

 

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[Jeremy408]

59 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Nobody said this was a rebuild. The roster has talent to compete and they will. But this is a fringe playoff roster.

The previous FO left a mess that they still need to navigate. Horrible whiffs on high draft picks for several years. Terrible FA signing that have left a dead cap burden at nearly 20% of the cap. >$40 million!! They jettisoned a veteran group on the Oline that the new FO has to rebuild. 

They did the right thing extending their core players and trying to fill holes. But it can't all happen in one season. 

No big signings on the Oline is a complaint for most. But look at Cincy who rebuilt their Oline in FA with big money deals and Burrow is getting eaten alive through 2 weeks. 

Bottom line, let their vision take shape. The Gruden-era had 3+ years to put it's stamp on things. Fans are cussing at the new FO 2 weeks into the season. 

We traded a first and second round pick for a receiver they could've taken more money on a better team with a better quarterback to come here if he didn't think he could win now. 

More importantly, Ziegler doesn't trade for him & Chandler Jones to a $17 million deal if he doesn't think they

A. Don't have a good enough roster to improve on where the Raiders went last year(10-7)

B. Didn't think that they could figure out O-line

Think about this, what moves did they make it right tackle? What moves did they make at guard? 

Here's the bottom line: if we're gonna say that Dave Ziegler is a good GM who is making good moves(which is what I think) then you have to look at McDaniels and say that he needs to do better at getting the team ready to go on Sundays and either start faster(see Chargers game) or finish games better(see Cardinals game). If you don't think the roster is good enough then you have to look at Dave Ziegler and ask the question did he prepare this team to move forward(10-7 or better)THIS YEAR which was the plan from the beginning. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Jeremy408

[agarcia34]

 

[Jeremy408]

26 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I can deny that. Comparing one season to the next is a fools errand. And why I think so many fans expectations are out of whack here.

Every season is different. Teams evolve, there is attrition, new coaching staffs, etc. Titans were the #1 seed last year, now their in a dog fight to not start 0-3. Bengals went to the Superbowl, they are 0-2 and the millions spent on the Oline are not producing yet. Things change. 

The Raiders won a lot of close games last year. That is not sustainable. Now they need to learn how to put games away, something Carr has not been able to do throughout his career. 

For me, this team is a fringe playoff team and this is really the year for this staff to evaluate Carr. He will be a big part of where the team ends up. 

 

Yeah but see even that take doesn't make sense.

-The Titans were the number one seed last year but since then players have been injured, best player is coming back from and ACL tear injury, players have been traded and the quarterback has always been shaky so yes it's going to be different.

-The bengals coach is garbage and no one remembers this but he was going to get fired last year until Joe Burrow just started going crazy. What happened this year is that they seem to be coming back to Earth another coach is probably back on the hot seat. If anything holds that team back it's going to be the coach and if they climb out of this hole it's going to be because of the stars they have on their team in spite of their coach

-with the whole Raiders won a lot of close game argument never really made sense because

1. They also lost a lot of close games 

2. Our roster had a lot of problems especially towards the end of the season when we won a lot of those close games(Darren Waller was hurt for like five weeks when they went on the win streak, coaching change mid season, Abysmal replacement play caller the same o-line(worse in my opinion unless you think parker and leatherwood are better than mumford and parham already), we had nobody to throw the ball to except for Renfrow. all the depth at running back got hurt and our linebackers suck. Ziegler came in and improve the roster(remember when we were all praising him in March? Which I'm not even saying that he didn't actually think he did still) so it was never unreasonable to believe that we could do either the same or better than what we did last year. And we supposedly have a better coach/playcaller now with the best receiver in football. We can't just sweep all of that under the rug say that the Oline have problems so that's the reason why we cant score points. Otherwise we have to say that the GM didn't do anything to fix the Oline. 

IF we regress this year you either have to look at the GM or the coach. it's just true. Not even saying this because were 0-2 because I was saying it back in March. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Jeremy408

[agarcia34]

 

[Frankie2Gunz]

54 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

 

I'm not even talking about playoffs of the Barometer of success. I'm saying this is not a rebuild that's the bottom line. 

-Roster moves don't indicate that it's a rebuild

-Hire doesn't indicate that it's a rebuild

The only thing that allows for a built-in excuses is that we're 0-2. So now people can come in and say "yeah but the point was never to win this year we're rebuilding."

It's pretty obvious that from the hiring of Josh McDaniels to the trading for Davante Adams the goal was to build on last year which was 10-7. If we were to get to tend and seven and not make the playoffs it would be disappointing(because we have better players than last year) but it would be understandable. If we go 9–8 or below(with better players and the money all tied up) then that doesn't work. Nobody can deny that. 

I'm not sue I am following your logic.  After all of the offseason moves that were made is there anyone on here who is suggesting this team was in rebuild mode?  

[ronjon1990]

57 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Jacobs to play today 

But will he actually play

[Jeremy408]

11 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I'm not sue I am following your logic.  After all of the offseason moves that were made is there anyone on here who is suggesting this team was in rebuild mode?  

 The only time is unacceptable in the NFL tonight improve as a football team is if you're rebuilding. It's the only time excuses gonna be made. That's why people don't get fired until year three usually. With all the excuses that are being made for why McDaniels shouldn't be able to build on last years citing a poor roster from the year before, the idea behind those excuses is that the team is not ready to compete now(that's what a rebuild is for). That's what I mean by that. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

13 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

 The only time is unacceptable in the NFL tonight improve as a football team is if you're rebuilding. It's the only time excuses gonna be made. That's why people don't get fired until year three usually. With all the excuses that are being made for why McDaniels shouldn't be able to build on last years citing a poor roster from the year before, the idea behind those excuses is that the team is not ready to compete now(that's what a rebuild is for). That's what I mean by that. 

It’s two games into a 17 game season. if Renfrow didn’t fumble in FG range last week and we were 1 and 1 would your narrative be different? If we go into Tennessee today and handle the titans will your narrative be different? 
 

we have started our slow which is not shocking to anyone who understands the dynamics of football. Does is suck as a fun, sure but making season long assumptions two games into a new football season is a rookie move and I know you are an astute football fan! 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Frankie2Gunz

[Jeremy408]

12 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

It’s two games into a 17 game season lol if Renfrow didn’t fumble in FG range last week ad we were 1 and 1 would your narrative be different? If we go into Tennessee today and handle the titans will your narrative be different? 
 

we have started our slow which is not shocking to anyone who understands the dynamics of football. Does is suck as a fun but making season long assumptions two games into a new football season is a rookie move and I knee you are an astute football fan! 

Whoa whoa whoa. Not saying the Raiders suck or that they're gonna suck this season. I'm expecting the contrary. I believe the team is too talented not to make the playoffs and improve on what we did last year. Plus our schedule is easy very reminiscent of the 2016 schedule. These two things combined I would be shocked if we didn't. 

What I'm talking about is IF we don't improve upon last year there should not be built in excuses for Josh Mcdaniels. I can't be....

If we do improve then the narrative is "look how great Josh McDaniels and the new patriots front office is there so much better than the old front office and head coach oh my gosh"

We don't improve then the narrative is "It's OK it's because the front office room before they weren't able to overcome some of the front office woes from the previous regime(even though the head coach waited 10 years for an opportunity like this and passed up other jobs and traded for the best receiver in football and gave all the best players contracts that would present a three year window)

^That all i'm saying. i've been saying that since march. What you said about the Renfrow fumble not only do I agree with it, my defense for when people were tearing apart Derek Carr last week. I didn't think anybody would've looked at Carr if Renfrow hadn't fumbled. But my thing is ultimately Josh McDaniels has to produce(and again by that I mean build on last year) and it needs to happen this year not some far off year because like we all agree apparently: This is not a rebuild 

 

And just no I have it on record before the game is even played I think the Raiders are going to blow the Titans out. But even then it wouldn't be saying much because it was just me and they beat the other 0-2 to football team in the AFC. The reality is we should've beat the Cardinals last week too. So just like how I didn't overreact when they lost not gonna overreact when they win

Edited September 25, 2022 by Jeremy408

[agarcia34]

 

[Frankie2Gunz]

11 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Whoa whoa whoa. Not saying the Raiders suck or that they're gonna suck this season. I'm expecting the contrary. I believe the team is too talented not to make the playoffs and improve on what we did last year. Plus our schedule is easy very reminiscent of the 2016 schedule. These two things combined I would be shocked if we didn't. 

What I'm talking about is IF we don't improve upon last year there should not be built in excuses for Josh Mcdaniels. I can't be....

If we do improve then the narrative is "look how great Josh McDaniels and the new patriots front office is there so much better than the old front office and head coach oh my gosh"

We don't improve then the narrative is "It's OK it's because the front office room before they weren't able to overcome some of the front office woes from the previous regime(even though the head coach waited 10 years for an opportunity like this and passed up other jobs and traded for the best receiver in football and gave all the best players contracts that would present a three year window)

^That all i'm saying. i've been saying that since march. What you said about the Renfrow fumble not only do I agree with it, my defense for when people were tearing apart Derek Carr last week. I didn't think anybody would've looked at Carr if Renfrow hadn't fumbled. But my thing is ultimately Josh McDaniels has to produce(and again by that I mean build on last year) and it needs to happen this year not some far off year because like we all agree apparently: This is not a rebuild 

 

And just no I have it on record before the game is even played I think the Raiders are going to blow the Titans out. But even then it wouldn't be saying much because it was just me and they beat the other 0-2 to football team in the AFC. The reality is we should've beat the Cardinals last week too. So just like how I didn't overreact when they lost not gonna overreact when they win

Success/ improvement is a subjective word.  What you consider success JM/DZ and 500 other fans might not consider success.

If we have a better record than last season but fail to make the playoffs is that a success or failure in your opinion?  If we make the playoffs and go one and done, is that a success? 

Is your idea of success improvement every year until we win the SB?  If we don't achieve that is this regime a failure? I think those are unrealistic expectations and there are multiple levels of success/improvement.