Week #3 GDT: Raiders @ Titans: No Polls, No Frills, Just Holes to Fill

[BayRaider]

On 9/23/2022 at 6:37 AM, big_palooka said:

The hyperbole is ridiculous here. McDaniels is a well respected coach who's been sought after for years waiting for the right job. He's 2 weeks into the job for a franchise who hasn't seen consistent success in nearly 3 decades. The process takes time. The Raiders and their QB have not shown an ability to close out games for years and some expect that to be fixed week 2. 

He inherited a mess from a FO that wasted countless draft picks and left the team with major holes. I get wanting to produce a winner, but the expectations some of you have are down right ridiculous.

Anyway, the Raiders will win this one. 2 scores would be nice, but when was the last time a Derek Carr lead team done such a thing? 

Unless you are in full rebuild mode, and fireselling, competent coaches just do not start 0-3 looking at history. 

[Humble_Beast]

I want to see:

• Munford and Parham start- hopefully OL has another good game 
• Waller and Adams should dominant this game
•  Tyrone get snaps and targets. Use his speed to scare a defense 
• Andre James comes back- he's a solid player, and center is a leader 
• Jones and Max take over the game 
• Hobbs locking down Burks 
• Moehrig return 
• Abram another solid game, to hush up the haters 

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said:

first game: OL and coaching was trash 

2nd game: Coaching was trash - Cardinals made in game adjustments and our coaches had no answer...

 

we should win this game. IDK... I'm still on the fence with the coaching. I'm talking about offense, defense has been what was expected. 

Sorry my man, I like Derek Carr, have defended him many times before and think he’s a very good player but he was primarily responsible for the L in the first game. He had an outright poor game, Ints and missed TDs cost us dearly. 

[Humble_Beast]

1 minute ago, Darbsk said:

Sorry my man, I like Derek Carr, have defended him many times before and think he’s a very good player but he was primarily responsible for the L in the first game. He had an outright poor game, Ints and missed TDs cost us dearly. 

it was a horrible game for DC. forgot to mention that, bad INTS

[Darbsk]

3 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Under normal circumstances I would agree about being patient and having a transition year with a new front office.  If that is the case and they expected that then blowing almost all of your assets in year 1 is very short sighted if you only gave your self a 3 year window.  Even more of a reason to try and build the trenches and solidify the foundation of the team only in year 1.  See where you need to improve in the offseason and have more assets and a smoother transition into year 2.  Now since we do not have a lot of cap space and a 2 year window we are more likely to acquire help through trades with our picks because we will not have time to wait on rookies if they are not instant impact players.  This will further erode the teams ability to maintain a high level of play over time.  Now this does not have to work out this way but it becomes more likely as our assets dwindle and our window shrinks.

I’m not sure you got exactly what I meant. Probably I wasn’t clear enough!

I don’t think this is a ‘transition year’ or we’re in a holding pattern while we get all our cogs working together. I expect us to make the playoffs full stop. Less than that will be a disappointment but what I meant was let’s see the context first if we do indeed miss our. I’m not going to panic and call for change unless we look very disjointed and clearly continue to underperform. I think we’ll pull it together and appreciate it may take a little longer than hoped for.

I can see us scraping into the playoffs but then dumping a more fancied team out before falling to a team like the Bills. I’m disappointed we didn’t do more on the OLine but we still should be 2-0 right now, we gave the first game to the Chargers who were reluctant to win and did everything to keep us in it. Then last week, we were the better team and somehow clawed defeat from the jaws of victory. I want to see it play out for six or seven weeks before making any real judgements on the FO.
 

[NCOUGHMAN]

37 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

it was a horrible game for DC. forgot to mention that, bad INTS

Lololololol 

[bucksavage1]

On 9/23/2022 at 9:44 AM, MrOaktown_56 said:

It's only week 3 and we're gonna bench Carr for Stidham 😂. The narrative pushers are out 2 games into the season. Comedy.

🙄 
 

Its step up time for Carr. He’s been the one constant on the Raiders 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said:

🙄 
 

Its step up time for Carr. He’s been the one constant on the Raiders 

Says a lot about what we've historically surrounded him with from a talent and coaching perspective....

[IHatesnyder]

You guys should have traded DC when you had the chance .
I’d say he’s gone after this season , this draft coming up going have some good quality prospects. 

[MrOaktown_56]

3 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

🙄 
 

Its step up time for Carr. He’s been the one constant on the Raiders 

Roll your eyes all you want. You've been posting the same thing for years without a viable solution. No one wants to see stidham start, except maybe you.

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Roll your eyes all you want. You've been posting the same thing for years without a viable solution. No one wants to see stidham start, except maybe you.

We also have not tried to improve on him either.  Not saying I want to throw away a season but having a horrible can set you up to draft a franchise QB..  Also if we are going to trade top picks for a player I would rather trade for a QB over a WR.  We have spent almost a decade now trying to put players around him and we still have zero playoff wins.  Carr is just good enough for us to not move on but not good enough to elevate the team.  

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Roll your eyes all you want. You've been posting the same thing for years without a viable solution. No one wants to see stidham start, except maybe you.

Could you imagine what would have happened had we done any of the "popular" ideas over the last year or two:

Tank for Tua...yeah with a lefty QB who still hasn't shown a whole lot outside of random sparks and a right side of the OL that would've gotten his blindside annihilated

Trade the house for broken down and ineffective Russell "Cooked" Wilson

Trade the house for Deshaun "Has Barely Played in 2 Years" Watson

Tank for Trevor, who would've been run out of town with his play by now

Fail for Fields.....uh huh

Waste it for Wilson? Lol

Miss Out for Murray, who would've gotten killed behind our OL and is only somewhat effective in an offense that's literally tailor made to mask his deficiencies

Damn it All for Darnold? Lol

Lay Down for Lance? ok....

Bust out for Baker? Yeah....

We've seen pushes for Spencer Freaking Rattler at #1 overall, ffs. 

I'd love to hear anyone's explanation for how, with the rosters and coaches we've had, we would have been verifiably better off with any of those guys. There's a good mix of guys who've barely done anything and guys who obviously don't lift bad rosters and coaching and wouldn't be here for the next few years. 

Since Carr was drafted, there have been exactly 2 guys drafted that I would say may have altered the course- Mahomes and Allen. Nobody could have expected either to turn out as utterly phenomenal as they have, and anyone who says they did is being disingenuous. Herbert may wind up in this category, but I prefer to see 3 very solid seasons before anointing anyone in the Mahomes/Allen category of blue chip franchise changer. He's close, but LA has had far better talent too. Frankly, I'd argue the only QB we've seen legitimately alter a franchise's trajectory and overcome questionable coaching and a lack of weapons is Allen, and I've stated many times that his year to year progress has been nothing short of amazing. 

People act like a change at QB fixes the Raiders' bad coaching and rosters throughout the years, and yet only one guy drafted since Carr has arguably done that. Everyone else walked into better spots or hasn't proven much of anything. 

I wouldn't even put Brady or Rodgers in the category of Allen, because frankly Brady has never had bad coaching or rosters and certainly never at the same time, while Rodgers hasn't exactly been stellar with fewer weapons and has never been able to mask bad defenses- which we've had virtually every year. 

People want to ditch Carr so badly that they would've made some sort of rash decision that would've yielded similar or worse results while costing us more. 

It's astonishing to me how narrow minded the anti-Carr crowd is, and they'll parrot things like "He's been the only constant" as if that says anything but just how bad we've been at finding talent to put around a QB. 

They think franchise QBs grow on trees and that a QB's success in infinitely better situations would automatically translate to what we've put on the field, completely ignoring any and all context. 

And let's be totally frank- if Gruden drafted a QB, it would have been Daniel Jones or some stupid move like Jacob Eason anyway. 

And to be even more frank- do we really want the guy who made Tim Tebow his first round QB drafting a QB?  Can Josh even draft QBs? He walked into the anomaly that was Tom Brady and has been on staffs that drafted the fantastic likes of Jimmy G, Jacoby Brissett, Jarrett Stidham, Mac Jones, and never developed Ryan Mallete. Not exactly a sterling track record there. 

Heck, do we even know for certain if Josh McDaniels can even draft? That 2009 Denver class looked really sexy at first too. I'd prefer to ride at least another year or two with the "one constant" to see if this regime is even worth keeping and on the right track than blindly spitball at (insert QB name here), yet some of these guys were calling for us to send a few firsts to Seattle for Russel Wilson lol. 

Amazing. Just amazing. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

21 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

The problem is not the roster. The roster has been built to compete now. The plan based on all the signings that were made is that there is a three year window(including this year) to win NOW. 
 

it's either A. Dave Ziegler put together a great off-season and McDaniels and the team is not doing what needs to be done in order to win(at least so far in the season)

or be this is one of the worst bit rebuilds in terms of strategy. here are my reasons

-if this is a rebuild you don't trade a first round pick for Devante Adams at 29 years old(nor does Devante Adams leave Green Bay(Who let me remind everybody, took less money playing for the Raiders then the Packers offered him) if he thinks this is a rebuild)

-sign 30 year old Darren Waller to a three-year extension

-Sign Hunter Renfrow to an extension before his contract runs out

-give Chandler Jones 17 million to be a mentor

-tie up the cap With all of these moves so that we have no ability to sign anyone else in the foreseeable future(next year and beyond) 

let's not fool ourselves the team needs to win and they expected to win. we're not doing the let's throw away this season after two games. Because that was not the plan

Built to compete now according to who and what do you mean by compete now?  Win a SB?  I believe that is an unrealistic expectation.  If this is a team that shows progression and growth throughout the season?  I would be happy with that. 

If they go 10 and 7 and miss the playoffs would that be consider that a wasted season?  Let's say they finish 10 and 7, squeak into the playoffs, would that be considered a success?  Context is key and to make a blanketed statement like "playoffs are the barometer of success" is lazy, lacking context and not well thought out.  

Is a SB run on a roster that has been completely blown up realistic or a fan pipe dream?  I believe it is a pipe dream.

I understand JM and DZ coming in, wanting to changing culture, getting their players and wanting to be competitive now, which I feel they will when the season is finished but to expect these two to work "Super Bowl" miracles on a team that was so devoid of overall roster talent and depth is an unrealistic expectation. 

Is the 0 and 2 start ****ty, yes it is but I am not shocked. Do I expect this team to be competitive all season and show continued growth and progression, yes I do.  

Like I have said in my prior post, writing off the season right now, overreacting and making assumptions on how this team will finish is foolish.  I am reserving judgment until after this season to give my assessment on how the season has played out and how JM/DZ have done.  

Edited September 25, 2022 by Frankie2Gunz

[big_palooka]

21 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

The problem is not the roster. The roster has been built to compete now. The plan based on all the signings that were made is that there is a three year window(including this year) to win NOW. 
 

it's either A. Dave Ziegler put together a great off-season and McDaniels and the team is not doing what needs to be done in order to win(at least so far in the season)

or be this is one of the worst bit rebuilds in terms of strategy. here are my reasons

-if this is a rebuild you don't trade a first round pick for Devante Adams at 29 years old(nor does Devante Adams leave Green Bay(Who let me remind everybody, took less money playing for the Raiders then the Packers offered him) if he thinks this is a rebuild)

-sign 30 year old Darren Waller to a three-year extension

-Sign Hunter Renfrow to an extension before his contract runs out

-give Chandler Jones 17 million to be a mentor

-tie up the cap With all of these moves so that we have no ability to sign anyone else in the foreseeable future(next year and beyond) 

let's not fool ourselves the team needs to win and they expected to win. we're not doing the let's throw away this season after two games. Because that was not the plan

Nobody said this was a rebuild. The roster has talent to compete and they will. But this is a fringe playoff roster.

The previous FO left a mess that they still need to navigate. Horrible whiffs on high draft picks for several years. Terrible FA signing that have left a dead cap burden at nearly 20% of the cap. >$40 million!! They jettisoned a veteran group on the Oline that the new FO has to rebuild. 

They did the right thing extending their core players and trying to fill holes. But it can't all happen in one season. 

No big signings on the Oline is a complaint for most. But look at Cincy who rebuilt their Oline in FA with big money deals and Burrow is getting eaten alive through 2 weeks. 

Bottom line, let their vision take shape. The Gruden-era had 3+ years to put it's stamp on things. Fans are cussing at the new FO 2 weeks into the season. 

[big_palooka]

19 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Unless you are in full rebuild mode, and fireselling, competent coaches just do not start 0-3 looking at history. 

Guessing you didn't look at recent history:

Sean Payton went 0-3 in 2007, 2015 and 2016 with Drew Brees as his QB. If the Saints were smart, they'd have fired him for being incompetent in 2007 when he started 0-4 his second year with the team. 

Mike Tomlin just went 0-3 in 2019. He's never had a losing season in his career. Complete incompetence.