Joe Barry'd again

[coachbuns]

52 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Yeah, giving a guy like Mahomes all that time is a good way to get beat. We got lucky. 

They don't have much for wide receivers down field so that really helped.  Kelce in the middle is about it .. rookie Rice for short passes and yards after catch.  They went from a down the field passing team to a short pass and run.  

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Old Guy said:

Yeah, giving a guy like Mahomes all that time is a good way to get beat. We got lucky. 

Yes.  We were stupid lucky.  Forget the bs roughness call.

We single covered MVS deep in a situation where you couldn't let anyone get deep.  And we did in fact get very lucky.

[craig]

On the MVS-single-cover play, isn't that one where we rushed 4?  Am I seeing two different arguments, one that we should rush 4 not 3 on long passing downs?  The other that a receiver shouldn't be able to face single coverage? 

[vegas492]

18 minutes ago, craig said:

On the MVS-single-cover play, isn't that one where we rushed 4?  Am I seeing two different arguments, one that we should rush 4 not 3 on long passing downs?  The other that a receiver shouldn't be able to face single coverage? 

It isn't too difficult to rush 4 and still have a safety deep.  Hell, many teams do it and keep 2 safeties deep.

Our safeties weren't even in the screen when the ball was coming down.

[craig]

Put me on the "rush 4" majority, by the way.  Maybe even sometimes 5.  

[incognito_man]

39 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

It isn't too difficult to rush 4 and still have a safety deep.  Hell, many teams do it and keep 2 safeties deep.

Our safeties weren't even in the screen when the ball was coming down.

Is that Barry's fault or the safeties in question though 

[vegas492]

14 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Is that Barry's fault or the safeties in question though 

That is a good point.  Since they weren't even close, my guess is that it was by design, not incompetence.  But I freely admit that I could be wrong about that.

[Mr Bad Example]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

That is a good point.  Since they weren't even close, my guess is that it was by design, not incompetence.  But I freely admit that I could be wrong about that.

What if it was an incompetent design? 🤔

[Packer_ESP]

9 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

What if it was an incompetent design? 🤔

But what will keep you up at night is... what if it was designed incompetence?

[Brit Pack]

Looking at this 3rd nd 18 play that went to Kelce when we rushed 3, I looked at the coaches film to see what happened.

So here we are aligned with 3 rushers.

Rushing 3 and Mahomes is waiting for everyone to run their routes

No one is open, all looking good at the moment

Kelce is entering number 36 zone, positioned at the Packers 43 yard line just outside the hashes

Then Mahomes seeing nothing is open starts to move toward the line of scrimmage and 36 jumps and goes towards him

Leaving 87 totally unattended

Boom! Completion

I couldn't be bothered to capture and post it here, but this happened at least in two other situations, where the play looks like it is breaking down and Mahomes looks like he is going to take off, the Packer defenders are too keen and multiple players leave their zone and go chasing after Mahomes, leaving a massive void behind them. 

This to me ain't the play call but undisplined play. Again could be expected in the play above as 36 is a rookie. He should have waited for Mahomes to cross the line of scrimmage before trying to chase him down, no way Mahomes gets 18 yards.

[craig]

18 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

Then Mahomes seeing nothing is open starts to move toward the line of scrimmage and 36 jumps and goes towards him...

I couldn't be bothered to capture and post it here, but this happened at least in two other situations, where the play looks like it is breaking down and Mahomes looks like he is going to take off, the Packer defenders are too keen and multiple players leave their zone and go chasing after Mahomes, leaving a massive void behind them. ....

TV announcers commented on Mahomes' unusual ability to escape forward rather than laterally, and in doing so to create those run-or-pass stresses. 

This also represents a second vulnerability of the 3-man rush.  Not only does it provide no pressure and give the QB limitless time.  But the 3-man rush is much more likely to open up lanes straight up the middle, through which Mahomes can run forward while still having his vision seeing the field.   Less likely with a 4-man rush. 

[Brit Pack]

15 minutes ago, craig said:

This also represents a second vulnerability of the 3-man rush.  Not only does it provide no pressure and give the QB limitless time.  But the 3-man rush is much more likely to open up lanes straight up the middle, through which Mahomes can run forward while still having his vision seeing the field. 

OR it worked as designed IF #36 stays disciplined:
1) It makes it very hard for Mahomes to go anywhere with the ball, no one is open
2) Time ticks and the mental pressure to do something with the ball is there, he is running out of options
3) He decides to take off
4) IF #36 stays disciplined, Mahomes could only keep running forward and easily gets stopped

This more shows the inexperience of 7th-rounder AJ Jr, if he doesn't get excited this play ain't happening. He really had no need to pursue the QB, there were two defenders in front of him who could/would have tackled Mahomes and he was being chased from behind as well. Just a bad play by 36. 

[craig]

2 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

OR it worked as designed IF #36 stays disciplined:
....
This more shows the inexperience of 7th-rounder AJ Jr, if he doesn't get excited this play ain't happening. ... Just a bad play by 36. 

Oh absolutely.  If the rookie plays it right, that particular play could have worked as designed. 

I was just noting that the 3-man does open up those scramble-forward lanes, it's a factor built into the play call.  

As you noted in your post, "... this happened at least in two other situations, where .... Mahomes looks like he is going to take off, .... and **multiple players** leave their zone and go chasing after Mahomes, leaving a massive void behind them."  That suggests it wasn't just the inexperienced rookie, that this is a temptation and a decision-making stresser on defenders.  

Not a huge deal, and obviously not the driving issue on whether to choose 3-man or 4-man rush.  Just observing that this kind of scenario is sometimes happens sometimes, and more often with 3-rush than 4.  

[packfanfb]

Another reason why, no matter how the Packers finish this season, the right decision still remains that Barry should go (even though he probably won't). "Average" is his ceiling. 

[Packer_ESP]

I dislike Barry as much as anyone and I'd love to get a new DC, but that graph does nothing for me. "First Down" percentage is high, oh noes! What does that even mean? Our TD percentage is quite good, punt and TO are about league average, FG is maybe a tad high. How does all of that add up to a terrible defense?

If you wanna bring quality of offenses faced or performance in key situations into the argument I'm all ears but that graph doesn't prove he should be fired.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Packer_ESP