Let's talk Jon Robinson

[KingTitan]

1 minute ago, TitanSS said:

Bro if we're counting Brewer as a positive for Robinson I'm done lmao.

He's smaller than the Ravens FB and one of, if not the worst LG in the NFL.

As I said, I don't particularly like him, but I'm not blinded by my dislike to say he can't play in the league, especially when I've seen it. Should he be our starter no, but as a back up, I don't hate it. 

[TitanSS]

Just now, KingTitan said:

Can you tell me (us) what exactly you feel makes a top-tier GM and then provide example of said GM?

I'm going to make a thread at some point comparing Robinson to just if we had drafted the consensus highest player available.

Won't be while I'm on my phone though because that requires research and not me just talking out of my ***.

[lovetitans]

1 minute ago, KingTitan said:

As I said, I don't particularly like him, but I'm not blinded by my dislike to say he can't play in the league, especially when I've seen it. Should he be our starter no, but as a back up, I don't hate it. 

Doesn't mater to him man. If every player we draft isn't a starter they're a failed pick. And they have to be drafted in order to count as good pickups. UDFA are failed evaluations by the GM. 

[TitanSS]

2 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

As I said, I don't particularly like him, but I'm not blinded by my dislike to say he can't play in the league, especially when I've seen it. Should he be our starter no, but as a back up, I don't hate it. 

He's a practice squad guy who has good athleticism but might be the worst pass blocking OG in the NFL. 

I think his PFF pass-block grade was like 25.

We all know PFF grades are to be taken with a grain of salt, but there's no other easily available metric for OL, and I think we all know 25s aren't awarded often to any type of performance you want on your team.

[lovetitans]

1 minute ago, TitanSS said:

I'm going to make a thread at some point comparing Robinson to just if we had drafted the consensus highest player available.

Won't be while I'm on my phone though because that requires research and not me just talking out of my ***.

That's a horrible way to quantify a GMs performance. Compare them to the performance of other GMs not individual players.  

[TitanSS]

We'll have to agree to disagree until I can make another thread to piss you guys off even more with actual research.

[KingTitan]

1 minute ago, TitanSS said:

I'm going to make a thread at some point comparing Robinson to just if we had drafted the consensus highest player available.

Won't be while I'm on my phone though because that requires research and not me just talking out of my ***.

Whew, that is really dangerous, because you can do that with EVERY GM and grade them as a failure.
You talking about a league that felt JC Jackson wasn't worth drafting. in 2018.
Missed on Maxx Crosby until the 4th in 2019.
That failed to draft Debo Samuel, Arthur Brown, DK Metcalf in the 1st round.
Let Johnathan Taylor and Derrick Henry fall to the 2nd round.
Failed to draft Lamar Jackson.
Taking Hassan Reddick or Derek Barnett over TJ Watt. 
Drafting Juju, Corey Davis, John Ross, Zay Jones over Cooper Kupp. 

And who is grading the players to make them the "highest" available. By some accounts, Henry Ruggs and CeeDee Lamb were the highest players, yet Justin Jefferson is the better player.  So that is a failure on the Vikings for taking Jefferson instead of trading up for Ruggs?

[TitanSS]

7 minutes ago, lovetitans said:

That's a horrible way to quantify a GMs performance. Compare them to the performance of other GMs not individual players.  

Just comparing whether or not the consensus draft board could outperform our GM. Not sure what you mean by individual players.

We can compare them to other GMs as well, but it's harder to quantify whether or not some DT the Vikings drafted is a good player when I don't watch the Vikings, whereas I know Tart is a good player.

I will be skewed towards the Titans simply because I know the players. Just as a Vikings fan probably wouldn't give Robinson credit for Tart because he/she doesn't recognize the name.

Edited October 11, 2022 by TitanSS

[KingTitan]

3 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

We'll have to agree to disagree until I can make another thread to piss you guys off even more with actual research.

Won't piss me off, but I'll gladly read it and provide feedback.

[TitanSS]

Just now, KingTitan said:

Whew, that is really dangerous, because you can do that with EVERY GM and grade them as a failure.
You talking about a league that felt JC Jackson wasn't worth drafting. in 2018.
Missed on Maxx Crosby until the 4th in 2019.
That failed to draft Debo Samuel, Arthur Brown, DK Metcalf in the 1st round.
Let Johnathan Taylor and Derrick Henry fall to the 2nd round.
Failed to draft Lamar Jackson.
Taking Hassan Reddick or Derek Barnett over TJ Watt. 
Drafting Juju, Corey Davis, John Ross, Zay Jones over Cooper Kupp. 

And who is grading the players to make them the "highest" available. By some accounts, Henry Ruggs and CeeDee Lamb were the highest players, yet Justin Jefferson is the better player.  So that is a failure on the Vikings for taking Jefferson instead of trading up for Ruggs?

The consensus draft board pre-draft. So wherever JC Jackson was ranked pre-draft.

No hindsight adjustments. 

 

[-Hope-]

1 minute ago, TitanSS said:

The consensus draft board pre-draft. So wherever JC Jackson was ranked pre-draft.

No hindsight adjustments. 

 

if you want this to make any kind of sense you need to do it for every GM and then see where robinson stacks up. doing it for him alone doesn't mean anything.

[TitanSS]

Just now, -Hope- said:

if you want this to make any kind of sense you need to do it for every GM and then see where robinson stacks up. doing it for him alone doesn't mean anything.

I mean, if I do it for every GM then it's just going to be the order of the consensus draft board?

Not sure what you mean.

Are we really that worried that the media consensus is going to outperform the thousands of hours and millions of dollars that we put into our front office and scouting?

I was planning on doing this before this thread was created today, I'm not even sure what the outcome will be.

[KingTitan]

2 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

I mean, if I do it for every GM then it's just going to be the order of the consensus draft board?

Not sure what you mean.

Are we really that worried that the media consensus is going to outperform the thousands of hours and millions of dollars that we put into our front office and scouting?

I was planning on doing this before this thread was created today, I'm not even sure what the outcome will be.

I'm not worried at all. Because I think you will its an empty attempt to prove a point, because it's inheritably flawed. 
I won't account for "steals" I won't account for what proves to be busts. 
Because if you are going off what the media graded as a success, you will see that players either outperformed or underperformed the expectation despite being highly touted. 
I don't see how you will grade a GM negatively if they got a player lower than they were expected to go and they were a success of if you got a player right where they were expected to go and they were a failure. 
Corey Davis was said to be the best WR in the draft by a whole lot of people. But Cooper Kupp is the best one. How do you negatively grade a GM for taking a guy who was supposed to go in the 3rd but performed like an #1 pick. 

[TitanSS]

9 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

I'm not worried at all. Because I think you will its an empty attempt to prove a point, because it's inheritably flawed. 
I won't account for "steals" I won't account for what proves to be busts. 
Because if you are going off what the media graded as a success, you will see that players either outperformed or underperformed the expectation despite being highly touted. 
I don't see how you will grade a GM negatively if they got a player lower than they were expected to go and they were a success of if you got a player right where they were expected to go and they were a failure. 
Corey Davis was said to be the best WR in the draft by a whole lot of people. But Cooper Kupp is the best one. How do you negatively grade a GM for taking a guy who was supposed to go in the 3rd but performed like an #1 pick. 

I don't think you know what the consensus big board is.

In the case of Kupp you would see the Rams GM taking Kupp and the media board taking whoever was the highest rated player (it may be some no name backup RT) and you would say the Rams outperformed the big board.

Either way it's not expected to be definitive. There is no way to definitively compare GMs. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by TitanSS

[KingTitan]

2 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

I don't think you know what the consensus big board is.

In the case of Kupp you would see the Rams GM taking Kupp and the media board taking whoever was the highest rated player (it may be some no name backup RT) and you would say the Rams outperformed the big board.

Either way it's not expected to be definitive. There is no easy way to definitively compare GMs. 

Lol alright have fun.