Packer problems

[cannondale]

12 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

It's funny Rodgers talks so much about momentum (which I agree with) and building momentum but he doesn't see that need to build momentum in his own play.

I feel this stat troubles Rodgers the most, pre the Jets, his average completion has traveled 3.83 yards downfield, last in the League.

Rather, he is trying to over compensate for that measly stat, if only he would be the game manager QB! His ability to extend plays has gone, he needs to be a one read, quick throw QB, build that consistency then use that beautiful magical arm, which no other game manager QB has, in situations and opportunities to put his stamp on a game and make those ridiculous throws!!!

It's like a guy whose got a big **** but no foreplay in his game. It's over quick and no one is satisfied!

 

If his average completion is 3.83 yards - then how is he not following the game plan ? Seems to me that stat says he is following the screen pass game plans perfectly.  The real question is why would any coach, QB, GM, or fan think that following that recipe is a good thing ?  Or that it's a recipe for winning games ? Shouldn't last in the league be your first clue that it's probably not a good thing ? So you're fine with any incompletion, sack, penalty, dropped pass, missed assignment, meaning you punt, because the offense is designed around 4 yard pass plays. Yikes. You're probably the first person in history to think that 3.83 per completion is just fine and the Head Coach and QB should be fine with continuing that game plan

Edited October 21, 2022 by cannondale

[Brit Pack]

22 minutes ago, cannondale said:

If his average completion is 3.83 yards - then how is he not following the game plan ? 

He is not taking the simple underneath stuff enough that's the point. The ball is not out hot, he still wanting for things to develop further down the field, constantly going for low percentage throws as the opportunity for the simple throw vanishes. Pushing the ball downfield is much harder to do now with less talent. Also his ability to extend plays has diminished.

[cannondale]

18 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

He is not taking the simple underneath stuff enough that's the point. The ball is not out hot, he still wanting for things to develop further down the field, constantly going for low percentage throws as the opportunity for the simple throw vanishes. Pushing the ball downfield is much harder to do now with less talent. Also his ability to extend plays has diminished.

You are contradicting yourself. If his average completion is 3.83, that means he is throwing all the damn screen passes and check downs. But the fact that you think that's just fine and he should do more of that is just mind boggling to me.

Edited October 21, 2022 by cannondale

[Brit Pack]

6 minutes ago, cannondale said:

that means he is throwing all the damn screen passes and check downs. 

His completions are. His incompletions are not 3.83 yards down the field though (with and exception of a few).

If he had the weapons, the Oline was in sync, it would be like last season and his average completion would be way higher than 3.83 yards. However, he doesn't but he plays like he does. 

My take on it is I would prefer Rodgers under centre way more not shotgun, give more of the illusion of run or pass and quick throws. I personally love the long 14 plays drives.

This was a good video which is from the last game,

 

[packfanfb]

33 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

1 hour ago, cannondale said:

that means he is throwing all the damn screen passes and check downs. 

If he had the weapons, the Oline was in sync, it would be like last season and his average completion would be way higher than 3.83 yards. However, he doesn't but he plays like he does. 

This is a Gutey/LaFleur problem more than 12. Giving him this set of weapons was a criminal offense from day 1 but no need to rehash that, and the fact that the coaching staff can't figure out the OL is really calling them into question too. Responding to those problems by simply telling Rodgers to "play within the offense" is a recipe for failure regardless of execution at that point. Rather...maybe fix the problems so defenses can't have an easy week game planning to just stop the run and defend 7-10 yard passes because they're not remotely worried about us beating them over the top with Allen Lazard and a rookie.

You make a simple adjustment on the OL and give 12 a legit outside WR with speed and this offense will look night and day different IMO. 

[Brit Pack]

8 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

This is a Gutey/LaFleur problem more than 12. Giving him this set of weapons was a criminal offense from day 1 but no need to rehash that, and the fact that the coaching staff can't figure out the OL is really calling them into question too. Responding to those problems by simply telling Rodgers to "play within the offense" is a recipe for failure regardless of execution at that point. Rather...maybe fix the problems so defenses can't have an easy week game planning to just stop the run and defend 7-10 yard passes because they're not remotely worried about us beating them over the top with Allen Lazard and a rookie.

You make a simple adjustment on the OL and give 12 a legit outside WR with speed and this offense will look night and day different IMO. 

Agreed the cupboard is bear on offence. However when we have had the best WR in the League and have had the Oline and we had homefield we have had the same issues of moving the ball.

Rodgers is the opitami of a rhythm/momentum QB. He needs to play himself into rhythm but he doesn't do it. 

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

My take on it is I would prefer Rodgers under centre way more not shotgun, give more of the illusion of run or pass and quick throws. I personally love the long 14 plays drives.
 

You kind of have to ask yourself, why isn't he under center?  What do the coaches know that you do not?

I'll offer a couple of guesses.

With a weak o-line, being in the "gun" gives Rodgers more time to watch routes, defenses, as well as "feel" the rush.

Rodgers may simply not have the appropriate footspeed anymore to operate under center.  

 

[cannondale]

1 hour ago, Brit Pack said:

Agreed the cupboard is bear on offence. However when we have had the best WR in the League and have had the Oline and we had homefield we have had the same issues of moving the ball.

Rodgers is the opitami of a rhythm/momentum QB. He needs to play himself into rhythm but he doesn't do it. 

He has to deal with the 7th highest pressure rate, despite getting rid of the ball faster than anyone but Brady, and an open receiver rate that is dead last. Time to move on

[packfanfb]

2 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

Agreed the cupboard is bear on offence. However when we have had the best WR in the League and have had the Oline and we had homefield we have had the same issues of moving the ball.

Rodgers is the opitami of a rhythm/momentum QB. He needs to play himself into rhythm but he doesn't do it. 

Not really. We won 13 games with Adams the past 3 years in the LaFleur offense. We also won 2 playoff games and lost 3. The first two to SF (2019) and TB (2020) had nothing to do with Rodgers over-targeting Adams. That issue only really manifested itself in last year's loss to SF. Our offense has been pretty damn good over the last 3 years, resulting in 2 MVP awards for Rodgers. 

I think Packers fans, including myself, went into this season with a false sense of optimism for the offense based on the "we were 7-0 without Adams" mantra. While we did win those games and did pretty well offensively in most of them, those were isolated results, whereas what we are now seeing is established film week after week on how to stop the Packers' offense. Defenses are going to continue to copy each other and simply shrink the field against us. It's a real problem that has no current solution without outside help IMO. It has nothing to do with "Rodgers not running the offense." He is running the offense 95% of the time and that's a big part of the problem given our personnel. 

[Striker]

49 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Not really. We won 13 games with Adams the past 3 years in the LaFleur offense. We also won 2 playoff games and lost 3. The first two to SF (2019) and TB (2020) had nothing to do with Rodgers over-targeting Adams. That issue only really manifested itself in last year's loss to SF. Our offense has been pretty damn good over the last 3 years, resulting in 2 MVP awards for Rodgers. 

I think Packers fans, including myself, went into this season with a false sense of optimism for the offense based on the "we were 7-0 without Adams" mantra. While we did win those games and did pretty well offensively in most of them, those were isolated results, whereas what we are now seeing is established film week after week on how to stop the Packers' offense. Defenses are going to continue to copy each other and simply shrink the field against us. It's a real problem that has no current solution without outside help IMO. It has nothing to do with "Rodgers not running the offense." He is running the offense 95% of the time and that's a big part of the problem given our personnel. 

In those games without Adams, the Packers also benefitted from much better OL play than we're seeing now. We also saw games where Aaron Jones contributed total yardage of:

182 yards @ DAL, 60 yards (Williams had 136) vs. DET, 83 yards vs. OAK (Rodgers passed for 429 yards, 5 TDs and 1 rushing), 226 yards @ KC, 86 yards @ NO (Lazard had 146 yards receiving), 111 yards vs. ATL (Williams had 95 receiving yards), 110 yards @ ARI (Dillon had 78 yards).

I'd be interested to see what the difference was in approach defensively without Adams, as none of those games were "surprise! Adams isn't playing" scenarios for the DCs. Maybe MVS mattered that much to keep them playing back. Or maybe the utter collapse of the OL this season really is short circuiting everything that much.

[incognito_man]

4 hours ago, packfanfb said:

Giving him this set of weapons was a criminal offense from day 1

Yawn.

More tripe from Rodgers apologists

[Maverick]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

Yawn.

More tripe from Rodgers apologists

Great counterargument from the GM apologist! 

[packfanfb]

39 minutes ago, Striker said:

In those games without Adams, the Packers also benefitted from much better OL play than we're seeing now. We also saw games where Aaron Jones contributed total yardage of:

 

You'll get no argument from me that the OL is a BIG problem right now, and frankly, might be the biggest problem. The position I take issue with is the suggestion that if we fix the OL, we are fine. I disagree there. I think we need better OL play (which we should get from the players we have), and an influx of some talent at the WR position. We aren't getting any contribution from Watson so far this season (and probably won't see much all year), largely due to his underdeveloped game right now. If we want to challenge this season, we need a better option out there who can stretch defenses and complement guys like Lazard and Doubs (and Watkins if healthy).  

[incognito_man]

1 minute ago, Maverick said:

Great counterargument from the GM apologist! 

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

[Brit Pack]

1 hour ago, cannondale said:

He has to deal with the 7th highest pressure rate, despite getting rid of the ball faster than anyone but Brady, and an open receiver rate that is dead last. Time to move on

Forget the stats for a second, as I think some of them have very little value and I'm not going to start that debate of unpacking the relevance and predicatability of outcome from them, that's just a dark rabbit hole. 

Within a game from drive to drive you can watch and see he'll play patient and then he tries to press and it doesn't work. This is not just a 'this year thing', this is 'a Rodgers thing.' He overall struggles with in game adversity however, the times he does deal with it is purely magical and highly memorable. 

The thing that needs fixing is him finding his momentum, not a new WR or a new oline player, they are the cherries on top. For this offence to work MLF and him have to find how to get rhythm depsite of short comings, ultimately that's what every team has to do.