Time to Fire LaFleur, Gute, and Murphy And Burn The House Down

[Packerraymond]

11 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Couldn't be any worse. We had this vision to make our defense a super unit with Walker and Wyatt and it's blown up in our face, along with a myriad of other issues. The concept of "winning through our defense" isn't working. In the process, we virtually starved our offense of any offensive talent the past several years and it's reached a breaking point. 

Our defense hasn't given up 28 yet, we'd have 14 wins with our 2021 offense and this defense. Hasn't been as good as it should be, but certainly decent enough with a competent offense. The strategy for the roster was fine, we've just had injuries and regression across the board on the offense. 

[skibrett15]

2 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

We'll see how this class rounds out, Chase, Waddle, Wilson, Olave seem to be blue chip caliber players. IMO when you add someone like that, as long as it's not a K/P/LS/FB, you've got good value for your pick. 

It's time to consider WR one of the premier positions in the draft.  Especially when you consider the value you are getting from a cap perspective.

 

They are being paid in free agency like one of the premier positions in the NFL.  They have a higher salary than Offensive Tackles.  They have a similar salary to Edge and a higher salary than cornerback.  The only area they are lagging is in the GTD money at signing.   But the cap implications are telling - they are worth more on the cap than any position except QB.

 

So when you draft that $3m/year first round WR you are getting 20+M of surplus cap space.  When you draft a CB, you're only getting 17.  When you draft an Off ball LB, only 15.  And so on.

 

Now, maybe you can argue that a rookie contract WR is not close to the top of the market, but I think DK Metcalf proves that teams are willing to pay at the top of the market on a first free agent deal.  Especially since Christian Kirk and DJ Moore just got paid like they did.

 

So either the entire NFL is off in their valuation of receivers, or you are. Not you @Packerraymond, the other you'se.

Edited November 11, 2022 by skibrett15

[Striker]

28 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Not year after year, but we just took an ILB at pick 16. I can name about 10 WRs we could have drafted in that position who would be impacting our team in a more positive way right now over Quay Walker. 

The Packers picks were 22 and 28, unless you're assuming we could have packaged and traded up to 16. The next WR taken after the Packers picked Walker was Watson.

The only rookie WR that's have had an impact this season, second round or later, is Pickens. Hell, even the of the first round guys this year, only three of them are doing much of anything. So I'd be real interested to hear who those 10 are.

[MacReady]

3 hours ago, PACKRULE said:

No one remembers the Bills yet you posted it:). Bahahahaha hold on bahahaha. 

It’s not as funny as you think it is.

Jim Kelly was twice the QB Elway was with an unprecedented 7.4 YPA in the same era.

Bruce Smith would have had 12 consecutive double sack seasons if not for one injury season. Even with that season, he had more consecutive seasons with double digit sacks than Reggie White and currently has the all time record.

Yet how many times do either of those players get recognition over Favre and White?

When Favre and White won a single Super Bowl?

Literally nobody brings up Bruce Smith when he’s the all time leader in sacks. It’s always White or Taylor because those two won Super Bowls in Smith’s era and Smith didn’t.

Elway missed the playoffs 6 times in his career. Kelly missed them 3 times.

If you were to ask any football fan to name the best quarterbacks, receivers, pass rushers and running backs from that era, nobody mentions Thurman, Jim, Bruce, Andre, and yet their numbers compare to the best of the era.

Reed is 18th all time in receiving yards and he started in the 80’s when things then would be akin to manslaughter now and yet…

Nobody talks about him.

So yeah. Lol. But Aaron Rodgers is not going to be mentioned in the same company as Brady or Peyton Manning 20 years from now.

And you’re going to laugh because that’s who you are, but rewind to just 10 years ago. If someone was to tell you that 10 years from then, nobody will consider Brett Favre a top 5 QB all time, you’d laugh in their face.

The NFL will ALWAYS promote passing and offense. It’s why you can track career touchdowns/interceptions, passing yards etc by decade. Aaron’s TD/INT ratio will be the only standout, and 20 years from now people will say, “Aaron Rodgers was ahead of his time on not throwing interceptions, but couldn’t get even a second ring.”

Allen, Mahomes and probably two others playing right now will eclipse his passing yards and his touchdown numbers. Add in 3-5 who will be drafted in the next ten years and they’ll do the same.

You can be the best QB of your era, but if you don’t retire with jewelry, this league will leave you behind in a decade.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, skibrett15 said:

It's time to consider WR one of the premier positions in the draft.  Especially when you consider the value you are getting from a cap perspective.

 

They are being paid in free agency like one of the premier positions in the NFL.  They have a higher salary than Offensive Tackles.  They have a similar salary to Edge and a higher salary than cornerback.  The only area they are lagging is in the GTD money at signing.   But the cap implications are telling - they are worth more on the cap than any position except QB.

 

So when you draft that $3m/year first round WR you are getting 20+M of surplus cap space.  When you draft a CB, you're only getting 17.  When you draft an Off ball LB, only 15.  And so on.

 

Now, maybe you can argue that a rookie contract WR is not close to the top of the market, but I think DK Metcalf proves that teams are willing to pay at the top of the market on a first free agent deal.  Especially since Christian Kirk and DJ Moore just got paid like they did.

 

So either the entire NFL is off in their valuation of receivers, or you are. Not you @Packerraymond, the other you'se.

Fans aren't the only one whose eyes get big at the sight of shiny things. Stay the course. 

[skibrett15]

It's not the only way to build a team, but it's far from a destructive way to build a team.  At least that's the way some here portray it.

 

Best seasons in GB have featured prolific WRs.  Most of them in the 2nd round or later.  But when you can't and don't find those players later, it will be an issue at some point.

[CWood21]

Just now, skibrett15 said:

Best seasons in GB have featured prolific WRs.  Most of them in the 2nd round or later.  But when you can't and don't find those players later, it will be an issue at some point.

Were the WRs the reason for the success or the QB?

[MacReady]

@skibrett15,

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/receiving/2022/reg/all/receivingreceptions/desc

You don't need a first round receiver.

You just have to not expect two rookies to be ready right away.

We needed to acquire real, reliable talent, but not in the draft.

You don't use a first round pick on a receiver. You can use a first round pick to trade for one, but the risk/reward on first round receivers is not worth it.

Especially not when you have Aaron Rodgers.

Had we signed Julio Jones or JJSS, we're a contender this year.

The failure was not in the lack of drafting a first round receiver.

[MacReady]

I just cannot tolerate people saying you need to use a first round pick on a receiver when we've had probably 5 of the top 200 receivers over the past 20 years and we haven't once used a first round draft pick.

People forget that for every Justin Jefferson, there are three Kevin Whites.

https://www.milehighreport.com/2020/4/23/21232643/success-rate-of-first-round-wide-receivers-this-century

You need an elite receiver. This year proves that. But you do not use first round picks to get them.

[skibrett15]

First round receivers are valuable if they hit.  That's the start and end of my point.  If you think they hit less than other positions, show me.

[MacReady]

If you follow a trend, you will regret it.

The Rams are showing this now (just as I predicted).

They sold out, they got lucky, and now they're going to die a slow death.

You need two things and two things only to compete for a Super Bowl:

Cap health, draft capital.

You use that draft capital to find your cornerstone pieces (OT, EDGE, CB, QB).

You use cap health to fill in the rest (IOL, ILB, S, WR, TE).

No team was ever built with a receiver as its cornerstone.

A WR is only as good as the QB and OL.

 

[MacReady]

3 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

First round receivers are valuable if they hit.  That's the start and end of my point.  If you think they hit less than other positions, show me.

Look literally one post above this post of yours and I showed you. And the one I mentioned you in.

The majority of leading receivers were drafted in the 2nd-7th rounds.

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Outpost31

[skibrett15]

5 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Julio Jones

LOL, ROFLMAO, all of that.

[skibrett15]

Just now, Outpost31 said:

Look literally one post above this post of yours and I showed you.

There's nothing in there about other positions

[skibrett15]

21/77 first round WRs are pro bowlers...

How does that track for other positions