Cwood is a nerd and so are all the Packer Favorite Prospects: 2023 Draft Discussion Thread

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

I think you're short selling the importance of blocking to our staff. Kincaid has the effort, I can't fault him there, but he's a "get in the way guy." I just watched a few tight copy all-22's of Utah last night because their LT tested pretty well this week. There's a rep from Kincaid against Cox Jr from UF where he's just straight put on skates on the backside of outside zone. Washington is like having a 6th OL on the field, that can also run 4.6, think the staff will drool over that.

Kincaid...from what you saw...could he be an H-back/TE like Deguara?  Like if we wanted to move on from him, is that a role for Kincaid, assuming that we would motion him and actually find a use for him in the passing game?

From what I saw...he's no in line TE.  And I'm not sure about him just being a split wide TE.  Just wondering if a move TE could work for him here.

[MaximusGluteus]

6 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Yeah, those feet were real choppy...lol.  Even when he blocks, he's a long strider.

Look at the guys who went after him and you will see what quicker feet look like. And obviously they don't have the power that he does, so the sled doesn't go as far.  And who knows, maybe he was told to walk it out when it was moving.  He looked to me like Sisyphus moving the rock uphill.  

I know people get impressed at moving a stationary blocking sled.  Awesome.  I'm not.

I'll be impressed if I see the film where PackerRaymond says he is moving down and blocking guys so that the other o-linemen can get into space.  Because if he can do that?  If his feet are quick enough to do that???  Then I'll say I was wrong.  

And I can be wrong.  I've been wrong in the past, and I'll be wrong in the future.  But the thing that I hate about this site is group think.  I was "sold" on how good of a draft pick Randall was....and Savage.  I hated them at the time, but it was rationalized away on this site.  And to be fair?  I hated the Gary pick...that too was rationalized away on here and it was kindda true.  

So, I'm here telling you that I'm not sold on Washington as a first round TE prospect.  And that's my hard line in the sand for right now.  Don't read into it that I don't like Washington, because I do.  Just not in the first round.

 

You're the one obsessed with a ******* blocking sled rep FFS.  This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen on here.  We get it, you don't think he should be taken in the first round.  Cool.  But don't make stupid ******* arguments to try and support your perfectly valid point.  This is some StatKing/PackFan13/hitnhope level bull**** that you're stooping to.

EDIT:  Unless this is another one of your satirical posts and you've managed to dupe me, in which case, well played.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by MaximusGluteus

[vegas492]

9 minutes ago, MaximusGluteus said:

You're the one obsessed with a ******* blocking sled rep FFS.  This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen on here.  We get it, you don't think he should be taken in the first round.  Cool.  But don't make stupid ******* arguments to try and support your perfectly valid point.  This is some StatKing/PackFan13/hitnhope level bull**** that you're stooping to.

EDIT:  Unless this is another one of your satirical posts and you've managed to dupe me, in which case, well played.

 

Sorry you didn't like that take, but it is not satire.  I can drop the topic now.    Kind of.

I only put the sled thing out there because it was already posted and people were gushing over that one rep.  

I expected him to do that.  

And from the film I watched earlier?  I expected to see great hands and still my jaw dropped at the one handed catch. 

I also did not expect to see that 40 time from him, I thought it was going to be worse, because every cut up I've seen he shows zero acceleration.  But when I've seen his highlights, he seems to get a lot of speed after a few steps, like those long strides really eat up ground.

I instantly thought, we'd never use him in a jump ball situation like we should, because Rodgers doesn't do that kind of play.  But....that may not be an issue much longer, so maybe that can work.

[Kampfgeist]

Kincaid or any of the primary receiver TE's will fit on this team.    They would be a direct replacement for Robert Tonyan

IN 2022 season there were 1094 offensive snaps

Tonyan 591  54.02%  //  Lewis 451  41.22% //  Deguara   23.58%      ((ST snaps Tonyan 3 / Lewis 60 /  Deguara 200))

Of those 591 snaps Tonyan ran a route on 370.   

Following paragraph according to this article: Robert Tonyan could be perfect complement to Jacksonville Jaguars TE Evan Engram in 2023 NFL Free Agency (blackandteal.com)

"Tonyan isn’t particularly great in pass protection, posting a Pro Football Focus pass-blocking grade of 35.3 last year. However, he mostly lined up as a receiver, logging just 10 pass-blocking snaps, PFF. Meanwhile, he ran a route on 370 snaps..."

[Kampfgeist]

I don't think it's hard to envision any of the top 10-12 TE's ultimately being more effective than Tonyan as a blocker or a receiver.   Even more so if we move to Love and he's willing to utilize the middle of the field as a passing option

Edited March 6, 2023 by Kampfgeist

[vegas492]

9 minutes ago, Kampfgeist said:

I don't think it's hard to envision any of the top 10-12 TE's ultimately being more effective than Tonyan as a blocker or a receiver.   Even more so if we move to Love and he's willing to utilize the middle of the field as a passing option

If Spotrac is right...and Tonyan is 5.5M to return....I have zero issues about bringing him back for another season.  I thought he started looking quicker and faster towards the end of the year.  I'd still like a drafted TE for that room, but that would be a good number for Bobby.

[MaximusGluteus]

Just now, vegas492 said:

Sorry you didn't like that take, but it is not satire.  I can drop the topic now.    Kind of.

I only put the sled thing out there because it was already posted and people were gushing over that one rep.  

I expected him to do that.  

And from the film I watched earlier?  I expected to see great hands and still my jaw dropped at the one handed catch. 

I also did not expect to see that 40 time from him, I thought it was going to be worse, because every cut up I've seen he shows zero acceleration.  But when I've seen his highlights, he seems to get a lot of speed after a few steps, like those long strides really eat up ground.

I instantly thought, we'd never use him in a jump ball situation like we should, because Rodgers doesn't do that kind of play.  But....that may not be an issue much longer, so maybe that can work.

It's all good.  I think the reason people gush over the sled rep is because he was the only one really moving it, and he did so pretty easily.  Mayer did pretty well with it but it wasn't as smooth and effortless so it didn't get noticed as much.  Taken by itself it doesn't mean anything at all, but he's shown over and over again that he's a really good blocker against the best competition in the country.  He still has room to get better, obviously, but he should be able to step in and contribute as a blocker immediately.  If he were to end up in GB I would hope they'd bring Lewis back for another year so Washington can learn from him since their games are so similar.

I don't know how he'll be as a receiver in the NFL, but the potential is there with his wingspan, hands, and athleticism.  He looks slow off the line because he's so long limbed, but he's really not.  Obviously he's not going to run routes like Davante or even Kelce, but as a chain mover and red zone target he should do really well.  He wasn't used a lot as a receiver at Georgia because their passing offense ran through Brock Bowers and Ladd McConkey.  They ran the ball a lot, though, and Washington played a big role in their success on the ground.

Is he worth a 1st round pick?  I guess it depends on how a team values him.  I personally wouldn't draft him at 15, but then again the top of this draft is really weak so who knows what will happen.  I don't see GB taking him that high, though.

[vegas492]

1 minute ago, MaximusGluteus said:

It's all good.  I think the reason people gush over the sled rep is because he was the only one really moving it, and he did so pretty easily.  Mayer did pretty well with it but it wasn't as smooth and effortless so it didn't get noticed as much.  Taken by itself it doesn't mean anything at all, but he's shown over and over again that he's a really good blocker against the best competition in the country.  He still has room to get better, obviously, but he should be able to step in and contribute as a blocker immediately.  If he were to end up in GB I would hope they'd bring Lewis back for another year so Washington can learn from him since their games are so similar.

I don't know how he'll be as a receiver in the NFL, but the potential is there with his wingspan, hands, and athleticism.  He looks slow off the line because he's so long limbed, but he's really not.  Obviously he's not going to run routes like Davante or even Kelce, but as a chain mover and red zone target he should do really well.  He wasn't used a lot as a receiver at Georgia because their passing offense ran through Brock Bowers and Ladd McConkey.  They ran the ball a lot, though, and Washington played a big role in their success on the ground.

Is he worth a 1st round pick?  I guess it depends on how a team values him.  I personally wouldn't draft him at 15, but then again the top of this draft is really weak so who knows what will happen.  I don't see GB taking him that high, though.

I don't know who the guys were that took on the sled after Washington, but, they all got under it pretty nicely.  But only he had the power to move it and keep it going.  Just a much larger, much more powerful man.

I wonder...back in the day, Jason Peters was a TE who converted to LT.  I wonder what his combine numbers were.  

Looked it up....

Peters, 6'3 1/2.  336 pounds. 4.99 40.  20 split: 2.92  Bench: 21  Vertical:  29  Broad: 9.58 feet  20 yard shuttle: 4.75  3 cone: 770.

Washington, 6'6 1/2.   260 pounds.  4.65 40.  20 split: 2.7  Vertical: 31  Broad: 9.18 feet.

Interesting.  No sure why...but interesting.

[Kampfgeist]

5 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

If Spotrac is right...and Tonyan is 5.5M to return....I have zero issues about bringing him back for another season.  I thought he started looking quicker and faster towards the end of the year.  I'd still like a drafted TE for that room, but that would be a good number for Bobby.

Yeah -I think my statement was unclear.   2023 I wouldn't have any problem bringing Tonyan back at a reasonable contract as you noted and we do need vets in the room.    However, given some time to develop, and realizing TE's are typically slower to develop, I still don't think a rookie TE will take long (perhaps 1 season) to eclipse Tonyan's value

[Arthur Penske]

22 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Like I said, I legit thought he was cut last year and faded into anonymity. He has 23.5 sacks in 4 years with them. He’s not all that good.

Off 1 year

 

[MantyWrestler]

3 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Sorry you didn't like that take, but it is not satire.  I can drop the topic now.    Kind of.

I only put the sled thing out there because it was already posted and people were gushing over that one rep.  

I expected him to do that.  

And from the film I watched earlier?  I expected to see great hands and still my jaw dropped at the one handed catch. 

I also did not expect to see that 40 time from him, I thought it was going to be worse, because every cut up I've seen he shows zero acceleration.  But when I've seen his highlights, he seems to get a lot of speed after a few steps, like those long strides really eat up ground.

I instantly thought, we'd never use him in a jump ball situation like we should, because Rodgers doesn't do that kind of play.  But....that may not be an issue much longer, so maybe that can work.

I think he point was that an incoming TE rarely possess that kind of raw power blocking. Combine that with his exceptional hands and long speed and he becomes very compelling. 

[PossibleCabbage]

I don't think Washington is a better TE prospect than Hockenson, and Hockenson got seriously overdrafted.

[Zycho32]

Everybody took all the talking points about Washington by now, but it seems to me he's the exact type of pick MLF would make if he were truly addicted to the kind of power offense that was seen in TEN during the reign of King Henry. Draft day is going to be VERY interesting.

[PossibleCabbage]

I think if MLF makes a power play for the offensive piece he thinks he needs, we're more likely to take Bijan high than a TE.

[Kepler]

9 hours ago, CrazyJoeDavola said:

The drawback on Kincaid is that blocking is an issue and it probably won't work in this offense. My TE draft crush is becoming Zack Kuntz from ODU but he again is not a great blocker. The question will have to be if either have the willingness to learn and improve on that or they just want to be the big inside receiver.

Is it pronounced koontz or the plural of a bad word?