Week 11: San Francisco 49ers vs Arizona Cardinals

[N4L]

13 hours ago, 49ersfan said:

Just re-watched the Deebo TD...39 yard run and crazy thing is i don't think he was even touched. 

Great combination of playcall, blocking, and Deebo setting up his blocks

It honestly didn't look like he was even running hard lol looked like he was moving at 60% speed. Just such a natural runner 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

4 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I mean you basically said Young is feeling stupid about his comments when we saw the same exact Jimmy G that we always see and the team was not any more aggressive than it has been. So what does he need to be embarrassed about in his comments? 

Herbert has been check down Charlie all season and part of that is obviously with the injuries he has had in his WR group. Having a low aDOT is not the end all be all, but Jimmy completed mainly just easy passes close to the LOS. Some very good plays with the Kittle TD and Aiyuk's first TD as he went through his progressions before firing a nice ball. But this was mostly just a case of going up against a bad defense that generated ZERO pass rush. The underneath routes were open all day and our guys did what they do after the catch. That's not to say Jimmy is not playing good ball because he is, but there is nothing Young said that was proven wrong last night. 

Well, we don't always see a 4 touchdown performance with Jimmy. He had 21 passing attempts by halftime. That was pretty aggressive by Shanahan's standards. Steve's criticism at least for this game didn't really hold water. Jimmy taking what the defense wants to give him, and letting the players do the rest of the work is smart. He doesn't need to be Daryle Lamonica throwing mad bombs into triple coverage against the '85 Bears to have a dominant performance worthy of praise.

Herbert was also low in ADOT the previous year I believe. So it's not just injuries. That's how he's been utilized. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by TecmoSuperJoe

[TecmoSuperJoe]

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Well, we don't always see a 4 touchdown performance with Jimmy. He had 21 passing attempts by halftime. That was pretty aggressive by Shanahan's standards. Steve's criticism for this game didn't really hold water. Jimmy taking what the defense wants to give him, and letting the players do the rest of the work is smart. He doesn't need to be Daryle Lamonica throwing mad bombs into triple coverage against the '85 Bears to have a dominant performance worthy of praise. 

Herbert was also low in ADOT the previous year I believe. So it's not just injuries. That's how he's been utilized. 

I mean against the Cardinals, Shanny usually does this. Last year against the Cardinals, Jimmy had 40 pass attempts. Granted, getting in an early deficit had an effect there but he just did not run Mitchell all that much against the Cardinals last season either. In 2019, Jimmy had 37 and 45 pass attempts this team. What Shanny did last night was not all that much different than what he has always done against the Cardinals with Jimmy at QB.

When did Steve criticize Jimmy? Did he not say that BEFORE the game? And has he not been saying that for a while? I feel like he said something to this extent right after the Broncos game.

Jimmy is Jimmy, he's going to do what he always does. Always has been a solid QB but I didn't see anything that Steve say that was dispelled in this game. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

More context...
 

Quote

 "He was doing some dirty things,” Ward said. “He tried to clip me, he grabbed me by the throat. He grabbed my facemask on one play, so I don’t respect his game. That’s steroid boy.”

 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Squad starting to look sharp according to our chums at PFO:

Quote

Let's start with the obvious big wins. San Francisco gets 81.9% DVOA for its 38-10 Monday night dismantling of the Arizona Cardinals. That moves the 49ers up five spots from 11th to sixth this week. San Francisco is currently 11th on offense and seventh on defense. The 49ers offense looks better if you take out the Week 1 game played in a monsoon against the Bears with Trey Lance at quarterback instead of Jimmy Garoppolo. Without that game, the 49ers have 13.6% offensive DVOA which would rank seventh in the league. (Take out their defense from that game, and the 49ers drop slightly from seventh to eighth.) San Francisco's two best offensive performances of the year have come in the last three games.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-analysis/2022/cowboys-49ers-climb-dvoa-big-wins

[N4L]

The run we have had at corner in the second half of seasons over the past few years is crazy 

udfa 2nd year Emmanuel Moseley came out of nowhere in 2019 and was lights out during crunch time 

In 2021 Ambry Thomas elevated his game in the second half and was legitimately a big reason why the defense rounded into form. He had a tough offseason that year after sitting out of college ball in 2020 if I am not mistaken. We was given a shot and got better and more confident each week.

I am not sure what changed this year. It seems like the coaching staff doesn't trust him, but I really hope this guy can get sharp because he has nice length and other physical tools. 

Deommodore Lenior was a fan favorite from the jump as a rookie last year but started having some mental mistakes and got benched. He was not running coverages correctly or playing with proper leverage at times 

He started his career like a bat out of hell. Started off hot and earned an early shot at playing time out of camp. He was really making WRs work, I loved the hustle and the mindset, you could tell he was feisty and that he had the potential to earn a second contract. 

It's absolutely incredible that he was benched, switched to the inside part time, and then has played so well on the boundary. 

You really have to give credit to this coaching staff. I really hope DeMeco doesn't leave. 

[JIllg]

6 hours ago, N4L said:

The run we have had at corner in the second half of seasons over the past few years is crazy 

udfa 2nd year Emmanuel Moseley came out of nowhere in 2019 and was lights out during crunch time 

In 2021 Ambry Thomas elevated his game in the second half and was legitimately a big reason why the defense rounded into form. He had a tough offseason that year after sitting out of college ball in 2020 if I am not mistaken. We was given a shot and got better and more confident each week.

I am not sure what changed this year. It seems like the coaching staff doesn't trust him, but I really hope this guy can get sharp because he has nice length and other physical tools. 

Deommodore Lenior was a fan favorite from the jump as a rookie last year but started having some mental mistakes and got benched. He was not running coverages correctly or playing with proper leverage at times 

He started his career like a bat out of hell. Started off hot and earned an early shot at playing time out of camp. He was really making WRs work, I loved the hustle and the mindset, you could tell he was feisty and that he had the potential to earn a second contract. 

It's absolutely incredible that he was benched, switched to the inside part time, and then has played so well on the boundary. 

You really have to give credit to this coaching staff. I really hope DeMeco doesn't leave. 

I really think that Lenoir is just better on the boundary. I don't have a lot of data. I just know that he's been really good at jamming and getting in the faces of receivers out there in drills and has been a pretty good option out wide when given the chance. He has a really good feel for plays along the boundary, where you have to expect a lot of back shoulder stuff given the looks that we give teams. He's always been feisty and willing in run defense. Your concern is just getting bodied by big receivers. But he handled Hopkins better than Ward did last night. Lenoir hasn't been any good at all in the slot outside of run defense. So far the only guy at nickel that's shown any hope of covering guys without giving up every catch is Womack. I do think that Womack should start at nickel over Jimmie Ward, although that's closer than the decision to keep Lenoir outside full time. Jimmie is straight up a monster upgrade against the run there, but he just can't hang physically with guys given a two way go. Jimmie isn't sticky enough. He doesn't have make up burst any more. He hasn't defensed a single pass since starting in the slot. And Womack would be defensing at least one a game. Womack's just a lot stickier both by the eye test and through various metrics. Jimmie and Gipson can fight over free safety. I don't care very much and I get that Jimmie's been a key roster culture veteran since Shanahan's gotten here, but I've been impressed with Gipson's communication back there. But all of this is irrelevant compared to the main point. Please keep Lenoir outside. Please for the love of God, keep Ambry Thomas off of the field. 

[Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420]

2 hours ago, JIllg said:

I really think that Lenoir is just better on the boundary. I don't have a lot of data. I just know that he's been really good at jamming and getting in the faces of receivers out there in drills and has been a pretty good option out wide when given the chance. He has a really good feel for plays along the boundary, where you have to expect a lot of back shoulder stuff given the looks that we give teams. He's always been feisty and willing in run defense. Your concern is just getting bodied by big receivers. But he handled Hopkins better than Ward did last night. Lenoir hasn't been any good at all in the slot outside of run defense. So far the only guy at nickel that's shown any hope of covering guys without giving up every catch is Womack. I do think that Womack should start at nickel over Jimmie Ward, although that's closer than the decision to keep Lenoir outside full time. Jimmie is straight up a monster upgrade against the run there, but he just can't hang physically with guys given a two way go. Jimmie isn't sticky enough. He doesn't have make up burst any more. He hasn't defensed a single pass since starting in the slot. And Womack would be defensing at least one a game. Womack's just a lot stickier both by the eye test and through various metrics. Jimmie and Gipson can fight over free safety. I don't care very much and I get that Jimmie's been a key roster culture veteran since Shanahan's gotten here, but I've been impressed with Gipson's communication back there. But all of this is irrelevant compared to the main point. Please keep Lenoir outside. Please for the love of God, keep Ambry Thomas off of the field. 

I was rewatching the game, and when Jimmy Ward went down with a cramp, they kept D-mo inside and had womack playing outside.  

I think Womack keeps getting better each time I see him.  The way he jumped the in route on AJ Green was pretty sweet, he made another really nice play in run coverage, the Punt he saved from going into the endzone, and a gimmie int.  I think Womack should be on the field too.  

[NinerNation21]

10 minutes ago, Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 said:

I was rewatching the game, and when Jimmy Ward went down with a cramp, they kept D-mo inside and had womack playing outside.  

I think Womack keeps getting better each time I see him.  The way he jumped the in route on AJ Green was pretty sweet, he made another really nice play in run coverage, the Punt he saved from going into the endzone, and a gimmie int.  I think Womack should be on the field too.  

Ambry Thomas is a forgone conclusion, at this point. He must be unplayable right now. 

[Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420]

4 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said:

Ambry Thomas is a forgone conclusion, at this point. He must be unplayable right now. 

It is so odd.  I wonder what is going on with him.  Maybe he has a nagging injury like plantar fasciitis, or he's been drinking too hard, or being lazy about running.   I really have no idea, but I don't really include him on the depth charts.  

Do you guys remember the episode of the Simpsons where Mr. Burs hired all star baseball players, and they all disappeared in different hilarious ways.  Maybe Thomas is saving a lady's cat from a burning building, or got stuck in a portal to dimension X.

[JIllg]

13 minutes ago, Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 said:

It is so odd.  I wonder what is going on with him.  Maybe he has a nagging injury like plantar fasciitis, or he's been drinking too hard, or being lazy about running.   I really have no idea, but I don't really include him on the depth charts.  

Do you guys remember the episode of the Simpsons where Mr. Burs hired all star baseball players, and they all disappeared in different hilarious ways.  Maybe Thomas is saving a lady's cat from a burning building, or got stuck in a portal to dimension X.

It looked like an issue of confidence with Ambry to me last year. He's been an impressive athlete whenever I've seen him and stayed decently sticky, but really struggled at the catch point. And he struggled even more at the catch point when he wasn't feeling it. Now, I've heard nothing but terrible things about training camp this year, where he was giving far too much cushion and didn't do anything useful in practice. That could be any number of things. 

[757-NINER]

15 hours ago, JIllg said:

I really think that Lenoir is just better on the boundary. I don't have a lot of data. I just know that he's been really good at jamming and getting in the faces of receivers out there in drills and has been a pretty good option out wide when given the chance. He has a really good feel for plays along the boundary, where you have to expect a lot of back shoulder stuff given the looks that we give teams. He's always been feisty and willing in run defense. Your concern is just getting bodied by big receivers. But he handled Hopkins better than Ward did last night. Lenoir hasn't been any good at all in the slot outside of run defense. So far the only guy at nickel that's shown any hope of covering guys without giving up every catch is Womack. I do think that Womack should start at nickel over Jimmie Ward, although that's closer than the decision to keep Lenoir outside full time. Jimmie is straight up a monster upgrade against the run there, but he just can't hang physically with guys given a two way go. Jimmie isn't sticky enough. He doesn't have make up burst any more. He hasn't defensed a single pass since starting in the slot. And Womack would be defensing at least one a game. Womack's just a lot stickier both by the eye test and through various metrics. Jimmie and Gipson can fight over free safety. I don't care very much and I get that Jimmie's been a key roster culture veteran since Shanahan's gotten here, but I've been impressed with Gipson's communication back there. But all of this is irrelevant compared to the main point. Please keep Lenoir outside. Please for the love of God, keep Ambry Thomas off of the field. 

Disagree with Lenior not looking good in the slot. The first game he started in the slot versus the Lambs, thought he played Kupp about as good as one could ask for. His feet in man coverage, along with his instincts as a flat defender, lends him to be a better solution inside for me. And his ability against the run, is criminally overlooked. Most teams are going to try to spread us out and run against our nickel. Our slot guy has to be a dog in terms of recognition and effort. It's one of the reasons I think Womack lost his spot. Though sticky in coverage, he's not as impressive against the run.  That's what made K'wuan so valuable for this scheme.

I like my boundary guys with a little more length. It's not a big hangup for me personally but I think it does factor in overall effectiveness against better talent@WR. Lenior hasn't been bad outside. I just think as he matures and gets a better understanding of how offense attack certain leverages with concepts, he'd be a difference maker in the slot. 

But i also understand how much potential Womack has there as well. And I definitely have no problem keeping Lenior outside and taking our lumps with Womack as the nickelbakck. I'd welcome it in all honesty.

Jimmie should be playing FS. He doesn't belong in the slot. BEEN saying it for awhile now. Those days are over for him.  I've said that since he's returned. His range and ability play downhill in the run game is what seperates him from a guy like Gipson for me. We flat out did not give up big chunk plays in the passing game when Ward is manning centerfield. Huf is a playmaker but is still reckless with his overpursing and is not always where he should be. IF it were up to me, he and Gipson would be splitting snaps@SS, while Ward manned FS. But I understand Huf's knack for creating turnovers and why they want him on the field as much as possible.

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by 757-NINER

[TecmoSuperJoe]

 

[TecmoSuperJoe]