Week 12 GDT: Raiders at Seahawks

[drfrey13]

16 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

A defense that gives up 34 points isn't worthy of high praise during a whole game. Lol. 

But some of us have these things called expectations. 🤷🏼‍♂️

This is almost like saying the defense gave up 29 points to the Cardinals.  The scoreboard says 34.  Can not argue that but our offense set the defense up for failure a couple times and the defense set the offense up to succeed some also.

[BackinBlack]

20 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Just saw a carr commercial wow first time?

They showed it at the stadium too. Very weird.

[BackinBlack]

19 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Kind of difficult when the offense spots the opponent 10.  Defense also set the offense up deep in Seattle territory for a TD also.

To be fair though, our O was 32nd in turnovers going into yesterday. We have been good with the ball on the season. Outside of yesterday and week 1. 

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

This is almost like saying the defense gave up 29 points to the Cardinals.  The scoreboard says 34.  Can not argue that but our offense set the defense up for failure a couple times and the defense set the offense up to succeed some also.

Seattle scored 10 points off turnovers. 

24 points still isn't what I'd call a good defensive effort. 

If we lost the game yesterday, despite scoring 34 points (assumption being Seattle scored in OT) then it's on the defense. When you score that many points, but give up even more, that's not a defense "doing it's job" unless expectations are rock bottom- in which case yay for stepping over the bar on the ground? 

Mind you, my beef with the D isn't particularly personnel based. I'm critical about Graham's schemes and how often they clearly put guys in position to fail. I thought the players played hard and inspired for the most. And I think the scheme being drawn up let's them down far too often. Leaving the middle of the field wide open isn't a talent issue, it's a scheme issue. We could field an Olympic track team on defense, offenses are still going to move the ball when your scheme leaves 10-15 yards between coverages on a routine basis. 

[bucksavage1]

4 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Seems like he ran onto the field to celebrate then once he realized the play was still live he defaulted to blocking. Super funny 

Right lol. It’s also very funny the refs didn’t catch it

Edited November 28, 2022 by bucksavage1

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

To be fair though, our O was 32nd in turnovers going into yesterday. We have been good with the ball on the season. Outside of yesterday and week 1. 

Not talking about the season. Just yesterday and week 2 when it was the direct result of the offense giving the Cardinals points which lost us the game.  We never trailed with the defense on the field and the defense got a TO on downs in OT giving the offense the ball back only needing 30 yards for a makeable FG to win.

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

Seattle scored 10 points off turnovers. 

24 points still isn't what I'd call a good defensive effort. 

If we lost the game yesterday, despite scoring 34 points (assumption being Seattle scored in OT) then it's on the defense. When you score that many points, but give up even more, that's not a defense "doing it's job" unless expectations are rock bottom- in which case yay for stepping over the bar on the ground? 

Mind you, my beef with the D isn't particularly personnel based. I'm critical about Graham's schemes and how often they clearly put guys in position to fail. I thought the players played hard and inspired for the most. And I think the scheme being drawn up let's them down far too often. Leaving the middle of the field wide open isn't a talent issue, it's a scheme issue. We could field an Olympic track team on defense, offenses are still going to move the ball when your scheme leaves 10-15 yards between coverages on a routine basis. 

We lack talent and we lack good coaching.  I will definitely agree there but this defense is what we thought it was almost every week.  They are going to give up 20-25 points.  The only time we have given up more was the Chiefs.  They need to improve but to be upset that they where responsible for the expected points given up is dumb.  They did what we thought they where going to do and once again came up with stops when needed.  I do not want to keep Graham so this is not an endorsement of him.  As long as the defense keeps playing to expectations I am good.  This was a game the offense dug a hole for it self and I am happy they climbed out of it.  This game should have not been this close.

[BackinBlack]

36 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Not talking about the season. Just yesterday and week 2 when it was the direct result of the offense giving the Cardinals points which lost us the game.  We never trailed with the defense on the field and the defense got a TO on downs in OT giving the offense the ball back only needing 30 yards for a makeable FG to win.

Yea for sure, just whoever had mentioned that we still havent held a team below their average PPG. Yesterday the O put them it bad spots, but as a whole they have been solid. 

I do wish Moehrig or Harmon made the pick though. I know we just count that as the Os fault, but they did give up a big pass and then had 2 chances to give up no points. They held them to 3 which is a massive win for us, but it also shows, that they can hold them to 3, so maybe the first TD isnt just on the O, the D couldve held them to 3 there too . . (as they did the next turnover)

Thought the D played really well yesterday, all things considered though. 

[drfrey13]

6 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

Yea for sure, just whoever had mentioned that we still havent held a team below their average PPG. Yesterday the O put them it bad spots, but as a whole they have been solid. 

I do wish Moehrig or Harmon made the pick though. I know we just count that as the Os fault, but they did give up a big pass and then had 2 chances to give up no points. They held them to 3 which is a massive win for us, but it also shows, that they can hold them to 3, so maybe the first TD isnt just on the O, the D couldve held them to 3 there too . . (as they did the next turnover)

Thought the D played really well yesterday, all things considered though. 

If you turn the ball over in the red zone and they score a TD I do not put that on the defense regardless of missed opportunities.  I also feel the same way about FGs if you turn it over in FG range.  I agree the defense played well considering everything.  I just can't let it go when people make broad statements with out looking at why or at least stating why.

[RaisinBran]

Was at Lumen Field on Sunday! Great fan base there in Seattle. Every 3rd down was so intense and loud. Loved it. I was able to record Jacobs' walk off touchdown run as well. Such a great experience up there as cold as it was.

I thought our defense was pretty weak in this game (and pretty much every other game) aside from whenever Crosby was able to generate pressure. It seems like the only time we get stops is when he pressures the QB (unrealistic to think he can do this every 3rd down of the game) or the opposing QB makes a bad throw and we get lucky. 

Carr really impressed me with this game. How he was able to bounce back after throwing a couple picks and lead us to the win. Seattle's pass rush wasn't very good which made it easier for him. Also, am I the only one thinking Jacobs is the best RB in the NFL right now or is that just an emotional take? This last output just cemented it for me.

[NCOUGHMAN]

On 11/28/2022 at 10:10 PM, drfrey13 said:

If you turn the ball over in the red zone and they score a TD I do not put that on the defense regardless of missed opportunities.  I also feel the same way about FGs if you turn it over in FG range.  I agree the defense played well considering everything.  I just can't let it go when people make broad statements with out looking at why or at least stating why.

This I don’t get it the offense craps their diaper then gets mad at how the defense cleans it up. How bout not crapping the diaper? Let the defense fail by themselves why help them fail then get mad when they do.

defense got a int

defense even gave offense a second chance in ot to close out the game 

without the 10 points spotted* defense gives up 24 like they always do. 

[BackinBlack]

44 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

without the 10 points spotted* defense gives up 24 like they always do. 

my question is why 10 spotted?
if D allowed 2 tds on the turnovers youd say 14 points spotted id assume?
So the D plays a roll in what we say was spotted against them, which doesnt seem accurate. 
IMO we gave them 6 free points, which they turned into 10, which is fine. 

If we punt and they return around mid field is it still spotting them points?
The D dropped two picks in the endzone too. 

Yes we put them in very bad spot, and 10 points allowed for 2 turnovers (one inside the 15, one inside the 40), I will take 100%, they played well. But 2 fgs is what a great D does there, and potentially a pick too. 
 

[BackinBlack]

also 24 points is still not good given up, and that also just assumes if no turnover and we punt they dont score. 
24 points on 2 less possesions in a game. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

my question is why 10 spotted?
if D allowed 2 tds on the turnovers youd say 14 points spotted id assume?
So the D plays a roll in what we say was spotted against them, which doesnt seem accurate. 
IMO we gave them 6 free points, which they turned into 10, which is fine. 

If we punt and they return around mid field is it still spotting them points?
The D dropped two picks in the endzone too. 

Yes we put them in very bad spot, and 10 points allowed for 2 turnovers (one inside the 15, one inside the 40), I will take 100%, they played well. But 2 fgs is what a great D does there, and potentially a pick too. 
 

Exactly we aren’t a great defense we’re an average defense. 

Inside the 15 vs a playoff caliber team with a good borderline great offense. come on really first play of the game too. 
 

How bout not throwing that pick? Then we don’t even have this convo…

[BackinBlack]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Exactly we aren’t a great defense we’re an average defense. 

Inside the 15 vs a playoff caliber team with a good borderline great offense. come on really first play of the game too. 
 

How bout not throwing that pick? Then we don’t even have this convo…

well, even taking away those points its 24, which is still bottom 10, thats not average, IMO. We need more peices on D, they are battling the last few weeks, but need more talent. 
Inside the 15 yes, bad position to be in, but they scored the TD in 2 plays. That is not average, that is bad. 

Agreed, it was a terrible start by the O. Turnovers happen in games though, its part of football unfortunately. 
I actually like seeing Carr being more aggresive this year. Yes, the turnovers suck, but I think he has always played afraid of turnovers which leads to being a conservative O.

I would love to see us become an average D, I dont think we are there yet. Maybe below average. 

Also just to add, as you point out, against a playoff team, they dont make too many mistakes. When they do, you need to capitalize on them. We dropped 2 redzone ints. You need to capitalize on the mistakes when good teams make them. This is a point, that shouldnt be argued IMO. 
 

Edited December 3, 2022 by BackinBlack

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

well, even taking away those points its 24, which is still bottom 10, thats not average, IMO. We need more peices on D, they are battling the last few weeks, but need more talent. 
Inside the 15 yes, bad position to be in, but they scored the TD in 2 plays. That is not average, that is bad. 

Agreed, it was a terrible start by the O. Turnovers happen in games though, its part of football unfortunately. 
I actually like seeing Carr being more aggresive this year. Yes, the turnovers suck, but I think he has always played afraid of turnovers which leads to being a conservative O.

I would love to see us become an average D, I dont think we are there yet. Maybe below average. 

Also just to add, as you point out, against a playoff team, they dont make too many mistakes. When they do, you need to capitalize on them. We dropped 2 redzone ints. You need to capitalize on the mistakes when good teams make them. This is a point, that shouldnt be argued IMO. 
 

Seattle averages 26 a game good for 4th in the nfl. so for us to hold them to 24 is a good accomplishment. would you argue that?

I know ints happen but you want to do the homework on how frequent first play ints happen?

yes we should have picked off those ints. trey more than harmons imo tho. But we still got a int and a fr iirc. We’re average not perfect lol

this average defense held the #4 offense to 3-9 on 3rd down and 3-5 in the redzone including the free one from the carr int

Edited December 4, 2022 by NCOUGHMAN