Joe Burrow has inserted himself as a Top 2 QB along with Mahomes.

[JonStark]

On 1/24/2023 at 3:46 AM, mdonnelly21 said:

I don't need stats to show me what most of those QBs couldn't do. Joe Burrow gets the job done which is something Allen has failed at time and time again. 

Like when Burrow was on his way to losing to Tyler Huntley if not for an extremely rare goal line fumble returned for a touchdown? 

[INbengalfan]

2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Burrow has never demonstrated elite production despite having elite weapons. 

Never?  How about a passer rating of 131 with 941 yards, 7 TDs and an INT in two games last year.  Or had you forgotten?

[AngusMcFife]

59 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

Never?  How about a passer rating of 131 with 941 yards, 7 TDs and an INT in two games last year.  Or had you forgotten?

I'm talking about for a full season. No 1st team or 2nd team All pro, passing stats rank from 5-10ish despite having possibly best WR corps in the league. 

[INbengalfan]

41 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

I'm talking about for a full season. No 1st team or 2nd team All pro, passing stats rank from 5-10ish despite having possibly best WR corps in the league. 

While also having one the worst OLs (2021) and an average OL statistically in 2022 while missing Chase 4 games and Higgins for 2.

If great supporting cast mitigates it, weak supporting cast should prop it

[THE DUKE]

Not for mothing, Joe Burrow is the NFL all-time leader in completion percentage now that he has passed the minimum threshold of attempts.  Sounds kind of elite.

[AngusMcFife]

21 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

While also having one the worst OLs (2021) and an average OL statistically in 2022 while missing Chase 4 games and Higgins for 2.

If great supporting cast mitigates it, weak supporting cast should prop it

I think you are intentionally downplaying the quality of the O-line to prop Burrow up, but reasonable minds can differ. Last year I think the O-line was closer to average than one of the worst. This year they had a slow start but soon became an above average unit. It certainly was amazing to see the Bengals backup O-lineman steamroll the Bills for 170 rushing yards last week. 

I'd just like to see Burrow have a dominating year where he demonstrates he is truly elite before elevating him based on a playoff game where he throws for 240 yards at 6.5 Y/A. 

As a Ravens fan I certainly encountered plenty of fans who had a high value of Flacco because of his incredible postseason success and performances. But those kind of accomplishments don't sway me in terms of ranking QBs. 

[AngusMcFife]

4 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Not for mothing, Joe Burrow is the NFL all-time leader in completion percentage now that he has passed the minimum threshold of attempts.  Sounds kind of elite.

Jimmy Garappollo is 3rd all time. That's some elite company! 

[Mox]

2 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Not for mothing, Joe Burrow is the NFL all-time leader in completion percentage now that he has passed the minimum threshold of attempts.  Sounds kind of elite.

2021

1st in comp%, 1st in YPA, 2nd in passer rating, (8th in TDs, 6th in yards while being 15th in attempts) 

2022

5th in yards, 2nd in TDs, 2nd in comp%, (6th in rating, 5th in yards)

 

36-15 and 35-14 are elite but 34-14 and 35-10 aren't despite the higher passer rating, more yards and more playoff success. You can tell there is a bias against Burrow in the analysis here. Again, not even saying Burrow is the 2nd best QB in the NFL but the constant downplaying or holding him to a higher standard is soooo obvious at this point and we all know why. He's currently on a 17-game stretch with 36 TDs 8 Ints 4,588 yards and a 104.1 rating while going 14-3, going a quarter of the year without his best weapon.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Bullet Club

[INbengalfan]

1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

I think you are intentionally downplaying the quality of the O-line to prop Burrow up, but reasonable minds can differ. Last year I think the O-line was closer to average than one of the worst. This year they had a slow start but soon became an above average unit. It certainly was amazing to see the Bengals backup O-lineman steamroll the Bills for 170 rushing yards last week. 

I'd just like to see Burrow have a dominating year where he demonstrates he is truly elite before elevating him based on a playoff game where he throws for 240 yards at 6.5 Y/A. 

As a Ravens fan I certainly encountered plenty of fans who had a high value of Flacco because of his incredible postseason success and performances. But those kind of accomplishments don't sway me in terms of ranking QBs. 

If I'm downplaying the OL, then how much are you overplaying the weapons?

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, INbengalfan said:

If I'm downplaying the OL, then how much are you overplaying the weapons?

I'd rank the Bengals weapons as top-3 in the league with Miami and Philly. Arguably the best, but I think most would agree those 3 teams have the best weapons. 

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Bullet Club said:

2021

1st in comp%, 1st in YPA, 2nd in passer rating, (8th in TDs, 6th in yards while being 15th in attempts) 

2022

5th in yards, 2nd in TDs, 2nd in comp%, (6th in rating, 5th in yards)

 

36-15 and 35-14 are elite but 34-14 and 35-10 aren't despite the higher passer rating, more yards and more playoff success. You can tell there is a bias against Burrow in the analysis here. Again, not even saying Burrow is the 2nd best QB in the NFL but the constant downplaying or holding him to a higher standard is soooo obvious at this point and we all know why. He's currently on a 17-game stretch with 36 TDs 8 Ints 4,588 yards and a 104.1 rating while going 14-3, going a quarter of the year without his best weapon.

You're just cherrypicking his best, stats, though.

Burrow is OUTSIDE the top 10 in 2021 in DVOA (14th) and QBR (12th). 

Burrow is 9th in DVOA in 2022. 

Which is why I say he is 5-10ish in terms of productivity. There are some metrics that are higher and some that are lower, but if you aggregate the stats and intelligently weigh them he ends up in the 5-10 range. 

[NoFlyZone]

9 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

You're just cherrypicking his best, stats, though.

Burrow is OUTSIDE the top 10 in 2021 in DVOA (14th) and QBR (12th). 

Burrow is 9th in DVOA in 2022. 

Which is why I say he is 5-10ish in terms of productivity. There are some metrics that are higher and some that are lower, but if you aggregate the stats and intelligently weigh them he ends up in the 5-10 range. 

People put a little too much weight in DVOA.. though as I've said before I appreciate what they try and accomplish. What 8 QBs are you taking over Burrow? Even going off your range of 5-10... at best what 4 are you taking over him? Mahomes is in a tier of his own, but other than making an argument for Josh Allen who are you really taking over Burrow? I can't think of anyone, really. 

Personally I'd say Burrow is playing like the 2nd best QB in the game behind Mahomes. Allen is of course also right there.

[Jameson_Neat]

17 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

He's currently on a 17-game stretch with 36 TDs 8 Ints 4,588 yards and a 104.1 rating while going 14-3, going a quarter of the year without his best weapon.

There's a QB currently on 22-game stretch with 40 TDs, 9 INTS and a 107 rating that most don't have in their top 12 QBs. 

[Mox]

12 minutes ago, BofaDeez54927 said:

There's a QB currently on 22-game stretch with 40 TDs, 9 INTS and a 107 rating that most don't have in their top 12 QBs. 

His rating was 107 for the extra 5 games, not the total. It's a shade under 101 overall. If he didn't have nearly three consecutive down years before a year and a third of great play, people would talk about him more. If he can prove he's that guy next year, people will move him up.

[Jameson_Neat]

12 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

His rating was 107 for the extra 5 games, not the total. It's a shade under 101 overall. If he didn't have nearly three consecutive down years before a year and a third of great play, people would talk about him more. If he can prove he's that guy next year, people will move him up.

Eh, format error, but that's not all that different.

My point is that most people refuse to move from their viewpoint/narrative even when presented with new evidence. No better example than Goff. 

Having to show it another year even though the guy had multiple successful seasons before becoming a Lion is a good example of that. And if we're being honest, he's not going to move up that far even if he plays well again next year.