Saints to name Joe Woods as DC

[Dome]

2 hours ago, scar988 said:

So basically the arrangement the Falcons have with Arthur Smith and Dave Ragone in Atlanta 

Likely a similar arrangement Sean Payton had with Pete Carmichael when he brought him over from being Brees QB coach in San Diego to be his OC  in New Orleans.

Pete Carmichael was never going to get to run “his offense” despite being there over a decade and even having play calling duties sometimes. There’s never any doubt that it was Payton’s offense. But Carmichael got to carry the title “coordinator”.

[scar988]

Just now, Dome said:

Likely a similar arrangement Sean Payton had with Pete Carmichael when he brought him over from being Brees QB coach in San Diego to be his OC  in New Orleans.

Pete Carmichael was never going to get to run “his offense” despite being there over a decade and even having play calling duties sometimes. There’s never any doubt that it was Payton’s offense. But Carmichael got to carry the title “coordinator”.

Exactly. Nielsen got out of there because he got tired of being a glorified DL coach. I wonder where Richard ends up though.

[MWil23]

21 minutes ago, Dome said:

You’re now saying you’re standing by a statement that you’re also adding caveats to.

 

Enjoy the off-season man, I guess you win this one lol. 

I’m not exactly in a position of clear headedness after waking up to the loss of Jlash today. Bit of a whirlwind and frankly screw the NFL the Browns, and Watson who really cares. 

[Dome]

@MWil23  the browns own homer writers seem to get it too

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2023/2/6/23587625/joe-woods-saints-dc-nfl-browns

 

Quote

Much like Alex Van Pelt is the Browns offensive coordinator but Kevin Stefanski calls plays, Allen will be in charge of the defense in New Orleans:

Woods’ role will be to reinforce Allen’s system, not run the one that was putrid in Cleveland. While he will be the coordinator in name, his duties will be far less than those usually in that position or the ones he had with the Browns.

 

ok I’m done now 

[Dome]

9 minutes ago, scar988 said:

Exactly. Nielsen got out of there because he got tired of being a glorified DL coach. I wonder where Richard ends up though.

Yeah Nielson was never going to get to call plays or have a serious say in the scheme.

Unlike Carmichael though, Nielson doesn’t have Brees to ride to a nice career. So he has to go try to do it himself.

[Dome]

15 minutes ago, scar988 said:

I wonder where Richard ends up though.

There was zero talk if Richard needing to be replaced. Fans were happy with him and seemed to like how he fit in with Allen and the DBs. 

Either he asked to leave because he wasn’t able to call plays or he had something personal with Allen (or another staff member I guess?) 

 strange circumstances surrounding his departure.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Dome

[Dome]

3 minutes ago, Dome said:

There was zero talk if Richard needing to be replaced. Fans were happy with him and seemed to like how he fit in with Allen and the DBs. 

Either he asked to leave because he wasn’t able to call plays or he had something personal with Allen (or another staff member I guess?) 

 strange circumstances surrounding his departure.

Found this:

Vaguely-worded philosophical differences led to a fissure between Richard and Allen as the 2022 season wore on, and now he’s looking for a fresh start.

 

That news makes it even less likely that Allen is going to let someone come in and mess with his defense 

[scar988]

4 minutes ago, Dome said:

Yeah Nielson was never going to get to call plays or have a serious say in the scheme.

Unlike Carmichael though, Nielson doesn’t have Brees to ride to a nice career. So he has to go try to do it himself.

He's going to have a tough time in Atlanta. We have some pieces, but nothing really great. Blue Chippers in Jarrett and Terrell. Some solid potential pieces in Ebiketie, Andersen, Malone, Grant, Alford and Graham. And then a bunch of JAGs under contract like Hall, Hawkins, Walker, Ogundeji, etc.

2 minutes ago, Dome said:

There was zero talk if Richard needing to be replaced. Fans were happy with him and seemed to like how he fit in with Allen and the DBs. 

Either he asked to leave or he had something personal with Allen (or another staff member I guess?) 

Very strange circumstances surrounding his departure.

I wouldn't hate it if Richard came here. Though, he may want play-calling duties somewhere.

[TheKillerNacho]

1 minute ago, scar988 said:

I wouldn't hate it if Richard came here. Though, he may want play-calling duties somewhere.

triple defensive coordinators... make it happen, Atlanta!

[scar988]

Just now, TheKillerNacho said:

triple defensive coordinators.

make it happen, Atlanta.

Jerry Gray isn't calling plays here, though. He's going to help design, but he's basically asst DC. Nielsen is the DC and will be the DC, but maybe Richard is Defensive Passing Game coordinator and they use all three of their thought processes to build a competent defense.

[TheKillerNacho]

1 minute ago, scar988 said:

Jerry Gray isn't calling plays here, though. He's going to help design, but he's basically asst DC. Nielsen is the DC and will be the DC, but maybe Richard is Defensive Passing Game coordinator and they use all three of their thought processes to build a competent defense.

coordinator isn't synonymous with playcaller - it's possible to be one but not the other.

[Dome]

24 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

triple defensive coordinators... make it happen, Atlanta!

Basically what the Saint has last year

Allen was the HC scheming the defense and calling the plays.

Neilson was co-DC in charge of the run game and DL

Richard was co-DC in charge or the passing game and DBs 

should’ve brought in a 3rd co-DC in charge of blitzing and LBers tbh 

 

[SWATcha]

8 hours ago, Dome said:

You’ve gotta be the most pessimistic saints fan I’ve ever seen lol 

Dennis Allen put together a season comparable to Payton’s last year, and he did it with less talent available to him than Payton had in 2001. 
 

now he’s got a 1st round pick and potentially a high 2nd next year from Denver, the defense is strong despite losing player in FA and via trade, and they seem to enjoy playing for Allen 
 

So who are you bringing in at this point in the season that is a better option than Allen? And why are they better?

It's not pessimism @Dome. I can't stand Dennis Allen. Pretty sure I haven't wavered on that. As a DC, I think he's great. As a HC, he's pure garbage. He's incapable of seeing the whole picture. He couldn't do it with the Raiders, he still can't do it with the Saints.

The defense wasn't the problem. When the offense scores less than 14 points a game on the back half of the season, and your star RB is being criminally misused, that's a problem. For him to double down and bring Carmichael back is laughable. The Saints offense was unwatchable last year. But that's going to change this year, right? Definition of insanity....

It's kind of my point Dome. This is a one way train wreck. There is nobody better that will come in right now. This thing needs to crash and burn, they need to finally rip the band aid off and do a full rebuild. 

[Dome]

1 hour ago, SWATcha said:

It's not pessimism @Dome. I can't stand Dennis Allen. Pretty sure I haven't wavered on that. As a DC, I think he's great. As a HC, he's pure garbage. He's incapable of seeing the whole picture. He couldn't do it with the Raiders, he still can't do it with the Saints.

The defense wasn't the problem. When the offense scores less than 14 points a game on the back half of the season, and your star RB is being criminally misused, that's a problem. For him to double down and bring Carmichael back is laughable. The Saints offense was unwatchable last year. But that's going to change this year, right? Definition of insanity....

It's kind of my point Dome. This is a one way train wreck. There is nobody better that will come in right now. This thing needs to crash and burn, they need to finally rip the band aid off and do a full rebuild. 

I don’t think Allen is a good long term solution, but you aren’t always in position to hire your best long term option.

The Saints certainly weren’t and still aren’t in that position… but they are trending that way with the Payton trade panning out well and some larger contracts/older players coming off the books.

There was a lot of turmoil in the locker room with how Payton left things. The team wanted Allen and some of the players spoke about being glad to keep the same “DNA” through that abrupt transition.

 

Who would you have hired and when? And how would you have lured them in with limited cap and limited draft capital?

How do you sell the players on the hire? What if they don’t buy into the new guy and you just fired they guy they already knew and bought into?

Whoever took the job in 2022 was going to pretty much have to work with what they were given for the 2-3 years. Not much has changed going into 2023, but we are a bit closer to having some freedom for a coach to make their own but moves. Who was gonna come in and make it work with what we had?

IMO promoting Allen after Payton left was the right move. Retaining him after he exceeded most expectations defensively is hard to argue with from the perspective of a FO who still doesn’t have a great job to sell to an incoming HC candidate. 

I think Allen gets this year to find his way to a winning record, and I think failing to replaced Carmichael is going to be his downfall there. 
 

But heading into the 2024 season this team is heading into more financial freedom and can get serious about figuring out who their HC of the future is going to be 

 

FWIW, Deuce Windham (who has info plugs in the saints org and rarely misses) said the team considered Allen’s hiring a 3 year transitional hiring to get the team from Payton to their next big hire.  He’s said that since the hire happened. Sounded like at the time he felt like Loomis was here for the long haul.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Dome