Trade Deadline Discussion and Proposals

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, redsoxsuck05 said:

That's the thing, they've actually gotten some really solid guys like Quickley, Grimes, and Robinson with really late picks. It's the lotto picks (Barrett and Obi) that have been duds. And the last couple years the Knicks have decided to trade away a bunch of mid-round 1sts for short-term cap relief or future picks that are heavily protected.

The Knicks approach to roster building has been super weird, they had Donovan Mitchell within their grasp and blew it. Now they have $95-100M in salary tied up into Brunson/Randle/Robinson/Barrett for each of the next four years and that's not even going to get them close to contending.

[beekay414]

6 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

Except for the best player in the league

Giannis went 15th 😉

[Mox]

54 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Giannis went 15th 😉

Jokic has passed him at this point for me. But I can see why someone would take Giannis because of his defensive impact.

[beekay414]

15 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Jokic has passed him at this point for me. But I can see why someone would take Giannis because of his defensive impact.

Considering it's a two way game, indeed. 

[Mox]

1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

Considering it's a two way game, indeed. 

I never thought we'd be in a place where we are about to get our first 3-peat MVP in like 40 years, whose play holds up in the postseason, and more people don't have him as the best player than do.

[CWood21]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Would assume the Lakers rotation now will be:

PG - Russell | Schroder 

SG - Beasley | Reeves 

SF - LeBron | Walker | Brown

PF - Davis | Rui

C - Bamba | Vanderbilt 

That more or less looks correct.

[Sllim Pickens]

3 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

I never thought we'd be in a place where we are about to get our first 3-peat MVP in like 40 years, whose play holds up in the postseason, and more people don't have him as the best player than do.

He set the season record in PER last year and has the second best season ever going this year. And was top 13 the year before. Giannis has two of the top 5 as well but the last two years have not been as high so Jokic has probably passed him in my eyes.  They are definitely the top 2 in the game right now though. 

[BigC421/]

7 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

I never thought we'd be in a place where we are about to get our first 3-peat MVP in like 40 years, whose play holds up in the postseason, and more people don't have him as the best player than do.

Seems like the fact he’s not really considered the best player in the league is the only reason he’s allowed to win consecutive MVP’s.  When elite players are clearly the best in the game they simple stop giving them the MVP.  If the goal is to win championships no one in there right mind is taking Jokic over Freak or prime Jordan, Bron, Kobe, Shaq ect.  Those guys practically were artificially eliminated from mvp’s in certain years at certain points in there career. The fact Jokic can win 3 straight but those guys weren’t aloud to is pretty telling

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, BigC421/ said:

Seems like the fact he’s not really considered the best player in the league is the only reason he’s allowed to win consecutive MVP’s.  When elite players are clearly the best in the game they simple stop giving them the MVP.  If the goal is to win championships no one in there right mind is taking Jokic over Freak or prime Jordan, Bron, Kobe, Shaq ect.  Those guys practically were artificially eliminated from mvp’s in certain years at certain points in there career. The fact Jokic can win 3 straight but those guys weren’t aloud to is pretty telling

Thats true.  MJ should/could have won 6 straight from 88-93.  Lebron should have had 5 straight from 09-13.  There is a chance Luka, Giannis, or Embid can steal it from him with that voter fatigue but he has been pretty far and away the best player this year.  But if he finishes averaging a triple double and a top 3 team in the west, it will be hard to not give it to Jokic again.  

[seminoles1]

1 hour ago, BigC421/ said:

Seems like the fact he’s not really considered the best player in the league is the only reason he’s allowed to win consecutive MVP’s.  When elite players are clearly the best in the game they simple stop giving them the MVP.  If the goal is to win championships no one in there right mind is taking Jokic over Freak or prime Jordan, Bron, Kobe, Shaq ect.  Those guys practically were artificially eliminated from mvp’s in certain years at certain points in there career. The fact Jokic can win 3 straight but those guys weren’t aloud to is pretty telling

Are you arguing Jokic hasn't deserved the last 2 and wouldn't deserve it this year?

[BigC421/]

23 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Are you arguing Jokic hasn't deserved the last 2 and wouldn't deserve it this year?

Going by established history no he he shouldn’t.  Better players having better seasons have essentially been disqualified from winning further MVP’s I’m just confused what makes Jokic different?  I also think those players were typically consensus best players in league for 5+ year stretches in some cases while Jokic has never been the consensus best player in league. So it seems like modern obsession with fancy stats maybe is the difference ?  Stats in todays nba are so misleading and completely different than 10-20-30 years ago. Defensive rebounding is a completely meaningless stat today (at least on an individual level, maybe not team). Assists don’t mean what they used to as teams are running more floor spreading “systems” now.  I mean how many times has Westbrook had more assists than Curry? Probably almost every year…..who’s more responsible for getting open looks/ easy buckets for there teammates?  The triple double just doesn’t mean what it once did. 
 

please don’t take any of this as me suggesting Jokic isn’t a totally awesome and unique elite nba hall of famer or unworthy of any MVP’s.  I just find it strange, Jordan and Lebron didn’t just not win MVP’s in a lot of those seasons they were hardly even in the conversation even though everyone in the world knew they were the best player.  
 

Don’t get me started on Geno winning “comeback player of the year”. I’m trying really hard to remember when he was good to begin with in order for this season to be considered “comeback “ as opposed to a mini breakout 

Edited February 10, 2023 by BigC421/

[Mox]

2 hours ago, BigC421/ said:

Seems like the fact he’s not really considered the best player in the league is the only reason he’s allowed to win consecutive MVP’s.  When elite players are clearly the best in the game they simple stop giving them the MVP.  If the goal is to win championships no one in there right mind is taking Jokic over Freak or prime Jordan, Bron, Kobe, Shaq ect.  Those guys practically were artificially eliminated from mvp’s in certain years at certain points in there career. The fact Jokic can win 3 straight but those guys weren’t aloud to is pretty telling

Or because he's gotten better each of the last three years and no one else has really had an argument. The bold is straight up wrong. Literally the only person that kind of fits your description is Jordan and that was due to voter fatigue not "he's above MVP now". I'd take Jokic over Kobe without batting an eye. 

[Mox]

6 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

He set the season record in PER last year and has the second best season ever going this year. And was top 13 the year before. Giannis has two of the top 5 as well but the last two years have not been as high so Jokic has probably passed him in my eyes.  They are definitely the top 2 in the game right now though. 

Like I said I can definitely see why people would take Giannis because of the defensive value but I think it's quite evident Jokic is the most impactful player in basketball.

[seminoles1]

13 minutes ago, BigC421/ said:

Going by established history no he he shouldn’t.  Better players having better seasons have essentially been disqualified from winning further MVP’s I’m just confused what makes Jokic different?  I also think those players were typically consensus best players in league for 5+ year stretches in some cases while Jokic has never been the consensus best player in league. So it seems like modern obsession with fancy stats maybe is the difference ?  Stats in todays nba are so misleading and completely different than 10-20-30 years ago. Defensive rebounding is a completely meaningless stat today (at least on an individual level, maybe not team). Assists don’t mean what they used to as teams are running more floor spreading “systems” now.  I mean how many times has Westbrook had more assists than Curry? Probably almost every year…..who’s more responsible for getting open looks/ easy buckets for there teammates?  The triple double just doesn’t mean what it once did. 
 

please don’t take any of this as me suggesting Jokic isn’t a totally awesome and unique elite nba hall of famer or unworthy of any MVP’s.  I just find it strange, Jordan and Lebron didn’t just not win MVP’s in a lot of those seasons they were hardly even in the conversation even though everyone in the world knew they were the best player.

So we shouldn't be happy if the voters adjust and actually reward who deserves it as opposed to holding to, by your admission, silly historical standards?

Or are you saying we should keep not rewarding deserving players because that's how, in your opinion, it used to be done?

[BigC421/]

2 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

So we shouldn't be happy if the voters adjust and actually reward who deserves it as opposed to holding to, by your admission, silly historical standards?

Or are you saying we should keep not rewarding deserving players because that's how, in your opinion, it used to be done?

Your making a very silly assumption that modern voters are adjusting and fixing the issues of the past. I guarantee you if the Nuggets were coming off back to back championships and Jokic dominated the playoffs and finals clearly establishing himself as the greatest player in the world he would not win a 3rd MVP.  
 

Instead he’s a perineal early playoff exit who’s never put a team on his back in the big games during an generation obsessed with alphabet stats to make them feel smart so he’s still the favorite.