Chiefs_5627 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Just saw some we got some new blood on the coaching staff: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 19 hours ago, RedGold said: I get the feeling we just got tired of dealing with Brown’s agent. That combined with the early payout he wanted. I think the upside is higher with Taylor, But it could definitely backfire. This staff has earned trust in their decisions. That is possible, maybe they disliked the vibe Brown Jr or his agent brought to the table, and Brown Jr did seem needy I guess at times. To me no way is the upside higher in Taylor, again Brown Jr is only 1 year older and he is the Pro bowler and was one before he got to the Chiefs. Taylor has never been for a reason and switching to LT which is not his natural spot is not going to go well potentially. Maybe I am wrong but no way would I call Jawaan Taylor a better player than Orlando Brown Jr and worth more money than Brown Jr is getting... 19 hours ago, Chiefs_5627 said: I'm convinced he wanted the sun, moon and stars after the SB and there's just no way he would've been worth the top LT money. There was a lot of chatter about Tunsil but he's about to try and get it all too. Like you said, I'm just gonna trust the FO and see what happens. How is that true? Orlando Brown Jr signed for way less than what Taylor got.... I am sure the Bengals are thrilled to have him to protect Burrow considering what they had last year at OT and with Jonah Williams constant injuries. Maybe they can hit in the draft and they generally do but not sure that will be easy. They could hit on one of these guys maybe to be their LT, Bergeron, Freeland, O'Neal, Bostick and Duncan all have a ton of potential, same with Richards and Steen or even Warren. So maybe that is the way to go but for them to be better off than last year, Taylor has to stay at RT in my book and they have to hit on a rookie for LT. Matthew Bergeron Syracuse RS JR Blake Freeland BYU JR Jaelyn Duncan Maryland RS Raiqwon O'Neal UCLA RS Earl Bostick Jr Kansas RS Cody Mauch NDSU Alex Palczewski Illinois Braeden Daniels Utah RS JR Carter Warren Pitt RS John Ojukwu Boise State RS Asim Richards UNC Tyler Steen Alabama RS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 21 minutes ago, Ozzy said: That is possible, maybe they disliked the vibe Brown Jr or his agent brought to the table, and Brown Jr did seem needy I guess at times. To me no way is the upside higher in Taylor, again Brown Jr is only 1 year older and he is the Pro bowler and was one before he got to the Chiefs. Taylor has never been for a reason and switching to LT which is not his natural spot is not going to go well potentially. Maybe I am wrong but no way would I call Jawaan Taylor a better player than Orlando Brown Jr and worth more money than Brown Jr is getting... How is that true? Orlando Brown Jr signed for way less than what Taylor got.... I am sure the Bengals are thrilled to have him to protect Burrow considering what they had last year at OT and with Jonah Williams constant injuries. Taylor is already a much better pass blocker than Brown is, which is why we’re paying him. Brown I don’t think ever becomes a good pass blocker, he’ll top out at average. But here he won’t be, he got beat way to quickly way too many times. He signed for less after testing the open market, he wanted much more froM Us. We actually offered him much more initially total contract-wise and he balked at that. Bengals also gave him a lot upfront, much more than we can spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, Chiefer said: Taylor is already a much better pass blocker than Brown is, which is why we’re paying him. Brown I don’t think ever becomes a good pass blocker, he’ll top out at average. But here he won’t be, he got beat way to quickly way too many times. He signed for less after testing the open market, he wanted much more froM Us. We actually offered him much more initially total contract-wise and he balked at that. Bengals also gave him a lot upfront, much more than we can spare. Taylor played RT only on the Jaguars and Walker Little was the LT when Cam Robinson got hurt wasn't he? So not allowing as many pressures is great but if you are a RT compared to LT that is a massive difference not to mention you played in a conference with the Titans, Texans and Colts. The Titans had injuries on their pass rush front all year especially without Dupree and the Texans were just not that great at pass rushing and there is four games right there. Orlando Brown Jr "In his first full season starting at left tackle, Brown allowed six sacks, 45 pressures and seven penalties on the year (via PFF). In his second season, he totaled four sacks, 58 pressures and seven penalties again (via PFF)." Jawaan Taylor "Taylor enjoyed his best season in 2022, allowing the fewest number of sacks in a single season (five) during his four-year stay. He also allowed the fewest number of pressures (21). For reference, Taylor allowed 34 and 58 pressures in 2021 and 2020, respectively, according to PFF." "Taylor graded out as the team's worst run blocker with a grade of 39.7 in 2022. For reference, the team's best run blocker among offensive linemen on the team with at least 200 run snaps was Robinson at 57.3." Maybe they got him on the up tick, but again if he was so good why was he not in the Pro Bowl over the past four years? Maybe he just struggled the times I watched him, still on paper to me Bengals got the deal at that price compared to what Orlando Brown Jr got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 43 minutes ago, Ozzy said: That is possible, maybe they disliked the vibe Brown Jr or his agent brought to the table, and Brown Jr did seem needy I guess at times. To me no way is the upside higher in Taylor, again Brown Jr is only 1 year older and he is the Pro bowler and was one before he got to the Chiefs. Taylor has never been for a reason and switching to LT which is not his natural spot is not going to go well potentially. Maybe I am wrong but no way would I call Jawaan Taylor a better player than Orlando Brown Jr and worth more money than Brown Jr is getting... How is that true? Orlando Brown Jr signed for way less than what Taylor got.... No, he didn't. He is more per year and almost twice the signing bonus, 30 vs 18, on a shorter deal. Taylor's deal is much more team friendly. 43 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I am sure the Bengals are thrilled to have him to protect Burrow considering what they had last year at OT and with Jonah Williams constant injuries. Orlando has been healthy. That much I give you. He will always be better blocking run vs blocking pass. It's easy to see why the staff prefers Taylor in that regard. 43 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Maybe they can hit in the draft and they generally do but not sure that will be easy. They could hit on one of these guys maybe to be their LT, Bergeron, Freeland, O'Neal, Bostick and Duncan all have a ton of potential, same with Richards and Steen or even Warren. So maybe that is the way to go but for them to be better off than last year, Taylor has to stay at RT in my book and they have to hit on a rookie for LT. Everything coming out of the FO says that both starting OT are on the roster. That means two of Taylor, Niang, Kinnard, and Wanogho. Who plays where is a separate but related question. Drafting a player who can be the swing backup is a lot easier than drafting a starter. 43 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Matthew Bergeron Syracuse RS JR Blake Freeland BYU JR Jaelyn Duncan Maryland RS Raiqwon O'Neal UCLA RS Earl Bostick Jr Kansas RS Cody Mauch NDSU Alex Palczewski Illinois Braeden Daniels Utah RS JR Carter Warren Pitt RS John Ojukwu Boise State RS Asim Richards UNC Tyler Steen Alabama RS Mauch stands out on that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGold Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) Brown’s pass blocking metrics are definitely inflated blocking for Jackson and Mahomes. He simply isn’t as good as his stats show. That can be true, and it can also be true that the Bengals made a good move signing him. He’s not bad by any means, but he for sure wasn’t someone I was ever worried about losing. The upside in Taylor is in his movement skills in pass pro and getting to play with Mahomes. The difference, is we aren’t paying Taylor much up front and still able to get out of his deal relatively quickly if it doesn’t work. Brown is getting paid handsomely year 1 and has more guarantees later in the contract. Edited March 19, 2023 by RedGold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs_5627 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: How is that true? Orlando Brown Jr signed for way less than what Taylor got.... Because he turned down a bigger deal than that last year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Taylor played RT only on the Jaguars and Walker Little was the LT when Cam Robinson got hurt wasn't he? So not allowing as many pressures is great but if you are a RT compared to LT that is a massive difference not to mention you played in a conference with the Titans, Texans and Colts. The Titans had injuries on their pass rush front all year especially without Dupree and the Texans were just not that great at pass rushing and there is four games right there. Orlando Brown Jr "In his first full season starting at left tackle, Brown allowed six sacks, 45 pressures and seven penalties on the year (via PFF). In his second season, he totaled four sacks, 58 pressures and seven penalties again (via PFF)." Jawaan Taylor "Taylor enjoyed his best season in 2022, allowing the fewest number of sacks in a single season (five) during his four-year stay. He also allowed the fewest number of pressures (21). For reference, Taylor allowed 34 and 58 pressures in 2021 and 2020, respectively, according to PFF." "Taylor graded out as the team's worst run blocker with a grade of 39.7 in 2022. For reference, the team's best run blocker among offensive linemen on the team with at least 200 run snaps was Robinson at 57.3." Maybe they got him on the up tick, but again if he was so good why was he not in the Pro Bowl over the past four years? Maybe he just struggled the times I watched him, still on paper to me Bengals got the deal at that price compared to what Orlando Brown Jr got. It’s 2023, is there really a difference between left and right anymore? I saw some tape, didn’t seem to matter who Taylor went up against he did pretty well. Particularly against Bosa in the playoffs. Who we do play twice a year, as well as Maxx Crosby who he also played very well against. We’re banking on his best game still being ahead of him too, so it’s a gamble. The Pro Bowl is such a meaningless measure of success lol, cmon man. Tyler Huntley is a pro bowler…Mitch Schwartz was never a pro bowler, despite being the best RT in football who regularly shut down Von Miller. Yeah Bengals got a deal for sure, I’m sure he wishes he would’ve taken the deal we offered him initially. And I’m sure Burrow’s gonna love running for his life immediately after the snap if the DE has a good speed rush. i like OB don’t get it twisted I’d rather stick with what I’m familiar with, hopefully Taylor is worth it. Gonna trust the SB winning executive/coach on this one. Edited March 19, 2023 by Chiefer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs_5627 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Chiefer said: It’s 2023, is there really a difference between left and right anymore? I saw some tape, didn’t seem to matter who Taylor went up against he did pretty well. Particularly against Bosa in the playoffs. Who we do play twice a year, as well as Maxx Crosby who he also played very well against. We’re banking on his best game still being ahead of him too, so it’s a gamble. The Pro Bowl is such a meaningless measure of success lol, cmon man. Tyler Huntley is a pro bowler…Mitch Schwartz was never a pro bowler, despite being the best RT in football who regularly shut down Von Miller. Yeah Bengals got a deal for sure, I’m sure he wishes he would’ve taken the deal we offered him initially. And I’m sure Burrow’s gonna love running for his life immediately after the snap if the DE has a good speed rush. i like OB don’t get it twisted I’d rather stick with what I’m familiar with, hopefully Taylor is worth it. Gonna trust the SB winning executive/coach on this one. Bro I'm not trying to disrespect the guy but who is this dude? Is he a Chiefs fan? He sure hates everything we do... Edited March 19, 2023 by Chiefs_5627 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 30 minutes ago, Chiefer said: It’s 2023, is there really a difference between left and right anymore? I saw some tape, didn’t seem to matter who Taylor went up against he did pretty well. Particularly against Bosa in the playoffs. Who we do play twice a year, as well as Maxx Crosby who he also played very well against. We’re banking on his best game still being ahead of him too, so it’s a gamble. The Pro Bowl is such a meaningless measure of success lol, cmon man. Tyler Huntley is a pro bowler…Mitch Schwartz was never a pro bowler, despite being the best RT in football who regularly shut down Von Miller. Yeah Bengals got a deal for sure, I’m sure he wishes he would’ve taken the deal we offered him initially. And I’m sure Burrow’s gonna love running for his life immediately after the snap if the DE has a good speed rush. i like OB don’t get it twisted I’d rather stick with what I’m familiar with, hopefully Taylor is worth it. Gonna trust the SB winning executive/coach on this one. I am not talking alternates, Tyler Huntley was just a random luck thing where QBs were injured or did not want to go participate. Here are the OTs in the 2022 Pro Bowl: Trent Williams, Tristan Wirfs, Rashawn Slater, Orlando Brown Jr, Dion Dawkins and Tyron Smith. Let us not pretend that they are bad OTs there. Sure maybe Mahomes makes players look better than they are with his off platform throwing and athletic ability but Trevor Lawrence is a decent athlete who can escape the pocket and get out of trouble as well. Not to mention take contact and still complete passes because of his size. Then again could argue a scrambling QB is harder to block for because they are all over the place and rarely stay in the frame of the offense. As for LT and RT, yes depending on the QBs hand he throws with, a right handed QB obviously the LT is very important because his back is turned away from that side at times. Sure in the shotgun has helped vision of the QB but there is a reason the LT is usually the better in pass pro team to team. 1 hour ago, onejayhawk said: No, he didn't. He is more per year and almost twice the signing bonus, 30 vs 18, on a shorter deal. Taylor's deal is much more team friendly. Orlando has been healthy. That much I give you. He will always be better blocking run vs blocking pass. It's easy to see why the staff prefers Taylor in that regard. Everything coming out of the FO says that both starting OT are on the roster. That means two of Taylor, Niang, Kinnard, and Wanogho. Who plays where is a separate but related question. Drafting a player who can be the swing backup is a lot easier than drafting a starter. Mauch stands out on that list. I guess if one considers that two year out at 2 years $42 mil I guess that is a higher pay rate per year. Maybe that is all he looks at but as a four year deal obviously Taylor gets more. Mauch is versatile but not an ideal OT and doubt he ends up as a OT. But sure who would not want him on their OL, especially with that face and vibe he has going. Also are Kinnard, Wanogho and Niang even legit options at LT? I liked Wanogho coming out, Kinnard I thought was more of a guard and Niang is long but... So are they considering one of them the starting LT? Not sure any have shown much of anything in terms of play have they. If they did Wylie would not have been the starting RT last year one would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Taylor played RT only on the Jaguars and Walker Little was the LT when Cam Robinson got hurt wasn't he? So not allowing as many pressures is great but if you are a RT compared to LT that is a massive difference not to mention you played in a conference with the Titans, Texans and Colts. The Titans had injuries on their pass rush front all year especially without Dupree and the Texans were just not that great at pass rushing and there is four games right there. Orlando Brown Jr "In his first full season starting at left tackle, Brown allowed six sacks, 45 pressures and seven penalties on the year (via PFF). In his second season, he totaled four sacks, 58 pressures and seven penalties again (via PFF)." Jawaan Taylor "Taylor enjoyed his best season in 2022, allowing the fewest number of sacks in a single season (five) during his four-year stay. He also allowed the fewest number of pressures (21). For reference, Taylor allowed 34 and 58 pressures in 2021 and 2020, respectively, according to PFF." "Taylor graded out as the team's worst run blocker with a grade of 39.7 in 2022. For reference, the team's best run blocker among offensive linemen on the team with at least 200 run snaps was Robinson at 57.3." I have to think that the staff sees in Taylor a player that they can improve with better coaching. Without doubt he is more athletic than OB Jr. and he has four whole months to work on LT skills before they even begin camp. They also have Thuney to help him which is a far cry from what he had in Jacksonville. 7 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Maybe they got him on the up tick, but again if he was so good why was he not in the Pro Bowl over the past four years? Maybe he just struggled the times I watched him, still on paper to me Bengals got the deal at that price compared to what Orlando Brown Jr got. Go to details Spotrac or Over the Cap. Cincinnati is paying a lot more up front. The cap hit for 2023 is $4.5 MM higher on OB Jr's contract. For the Chiefs, that's more almost as much as Tranquill and Edwards combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 15 minutes ago, Chiefs_5627 said: Bro I'm not trying to disrespect the guy but who is this dude? Is he a Chiefs fan? He sure hates everything we do... I follow the draft as much as if not more than anyone on this site. I have full 7 round mock drafts done in September and edited them monthly or weekly and have had that yearly for awhile. I had Orlando Brown Jr as a high 2nd rounder, originally 1st OT off the board and high 1st round pick before that poor combine. Have been following his career closely because I did not think he was going to be bad in the NFL and I did not think he was a bad player either even after the combine performance where everyone joked and thought he would be awful in the NFL. So I have an opinion on almost any move made in the NFL. I did not look as closely but yes on the front end Brown Jr is getting closer to $20 mil a year in the first two years with a possible out, so in that regard he is being paid more which I absolutely think he should be. Will be interesting to see how Taylor does especially if he is put at LT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 28 minutes ago, Chiefs_5627 said: Bro I'm not trying to disrespect the guy but who is this dude? Is he a Chiefs fan? He sure hates everything we do... I think he’s a ravens fan, and a big Orlando Brown stan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 10 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I guess if one considers that two year out at 2 years $42 mil I guess that is a higher pay rate per year. Maybe that is all he looks at but as a four year deal obviously Taylor gets more. $64MM/3 years is more per year than $80 MM/4 years. OB Jr's contract is much more front loaded. There are also reports that he turned down more money from the Chiefs. 10 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Mauch is versatile but not an ideal OT and doubt he ends up as a OT. But sure who would not want him on their OL, especially with that face and vibe he has going. Mauch is a raw talent that needs to be built from the ground up if not clearing everything and starting over. That's the sort of thing the Chiefs do, though generally not with top 100 picks. 10 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Also are Kinnard, Wanogho and Niang even legit options at LT? Kinnard is not. Wanogho was OB Jr's primary backup in 2022. Niang has trained and played at LT. How legit they are depends on your opinion of Niang's health. If he can stay on the field then he's a legit LT. 10 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I liked Wanogho coming out, Kinnard I thought was more of a guard and Niang is long but... So are they considering one of them the starting LT? Not sure any have shown much of anything in terms of play have they. If they did Wylie would not have been the starting RT last year one would think. They either consider Taylor the starting LT or that Niang and Taylor will settle positions in camp. It's hard to say about Kinnard. With Thuney, Smith, and Allegretti he won't get playing time inside. RT is his path to the field and I have to think he's working hard at it. He's more of a natural RT than Wiley and they made that work. Taylor moves really well for a man his size and he's knows the NFL and how it works. He has six weeks to minicamp to work on LT technique. Niang spent the whole COVID year working with a trainer and it whoed when he could stay on the field. With an example like that from your primary competition, I have to think Taylor will hire someone, too. As you say, it will be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 28 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I am not talking alternates, Tyler Huntley was just a random luck thing where QBs were injured or did not want to go participate. Here are the OTs in the 2022 Pro Bowl: Trent Williams, Tristan Wirfs, Rashawn Slater, Orlando Brown Jr, Dion Dawkins and Tyron Smith. Let us not pretend that they are bad OTs there. Sure maybe Mahomes makes players look better than they are with his off platform throwing and athletic ability but Trevor Lawrence is a decent athlete who can escape the pocket and get out of trouble as well. Not to mention take contact and still complete passes because of his size. Then again could argue a scrambling QB is harder to block for because they are all over the place and rarely stay in the frame of the offense. As for LT and RT, yes depending on the QBs hand he throws with, a right handed QB obviously the LT is very important because his back is turned away from that side at times. Sure in the shotgun has helped vision of the QB but there is a reason the LT is usually the better in pass pro team to team. Yeah but again it’s the pro bowl, it’s a popularity contest. I don’t take that seriously. OB got 17th rated tackle money because that’s what he deserves, he’s about average. Despite pro bowl berths, and he certainly didn’t deserve it last year for his play. How many All-Pros does he have if he’s so good? And to your point if TL can make Taylor look good, then certainly Pat can too that whole right hand-left hand dichotomy is such an old school way of thinking lol. This is 2023 the blindside doesn’t have quite the importance it once had. Mahomes slings it all over the field and pass rushers come from all angles in todays league. The best pass rushers in the division are on the right side. I’m actually curious if we do move Taylor at all, It’s actually to our advantage if the right side is more shored up then the left. Because Mahomes is right handed, he likes escaping right and making plays downfield. He’s not quite as good running to the left and throwing, unless he’s throwing with his left hand lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.