Ozzy Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 8 hours ago, Scoundrel said: This is why I wanted to see him Bench. Is it super meaningful? No but it would give us some idea of his upper body strength. I agree, I feel he is hiding something with the bench press, sure it is not everything but might explain why he was not more dominating in college. With those physical numbers he should have destroyed every single OL he went up against, he did not do that. 6 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said: Calijah Kancey haters make me laugh. That dude is gonna be a superstar in the NFL. He had 3 sacks against what ended up as a 3-7 Virginia team then 1.5 against Rhode Island, so 4.5 total sacks of his 7 against those two schools. Year before that he was a bit more consistent throughout the year, but still those tackle numbers are pretty low for a guy so fast and athlete are they not? He is promising but why did he not totally dominate more than he did with athletic numbers like that? Probably is moved into the 1st round now with those outstanding numbers, was a 2nd rounder before I thought, preseason I had him 1st round but honestly he did not wow like I thought he was going to this year. Will be interesting how he does in the NFL again obviously better competition. He should have totally destroyed the competition he went up against being that athletic. 6 hours ago, goldfishwars said: You know you don't have to compare him to Aaron Donald, right? He only has identical measurements, size, speed, and testing outside of obviously the bench. How can one not compare him? Hell he trains with Aaron Donald as well.... And it is not like there are tons of other guys to compare him to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Comparing Kancey to Donald is silly. If he had gone to some other college, most people wouldn't compare them. Donald was dominant and his final year he won the Outland, Lombardi, Nagurski, and Bednarik awards. Kancey won none of those. He's a quick but undersized DT who will regularly get road graded in the NFL. I don't think either Kancey or Adebatawore are first round players though someone may take them there and hope. I'd call Kancey a poor man's Grady Jarrett. Where was Jarrett picked? Karl Brooks is another undersized DT who was more productive in college than Kancey. Nobody thinks he's a first round talent. He wasn't even invited to the combine though he'll be drafted somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 23 minutes ago, sparky151 said: Comparing Kancey to Donald is silly. If he had gone to some other college, most people wouldn't compare them. Donald was dominant and his final year he won the Outland, Lombardi, Nagurski, and Bednarik awards. Kancey won none of those. He's a quick but undersized DT who will regularly get road graded in the NFL. I don't think either Kancey or Adebatawore are first round players though someone may take them there and hope. I'd call Kancey a poor man's Grady Jarrett. Where was Jarrett picked? Karl Brooks is another undersized DT who was more productive in college than Kancey. Nobody thinks he's a first round talent. He wasn't even invited to the combine though he'll be drafted somewhere. How is it silly? One is comparing them because they are almost physically identical in terms of those numbers height, weight and workout performance. Silly? Put Kancey on the Florida Gators he would still get the Aaron Donald comparison and he should! Fact is Aaron Donald flat out dominated in games he played in college, not sure Kancey was on his level at all but both are physically identical so something is potentially missing with Kancey, not sure what. Yeah no one is comparing Karl Brooks to Donald because he is quite a bit taller, ran what a 5 second 40 time or something like that, poor vertical etc. But even with him he would get it but athletically they do not match up, Kancey and Donald do so I am saying what is missing with Kancey and why in the hell did he not dominate in college being that athletic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Aaron Donald just isn't a fair comparison for just about any prospect with his combination of production and freakish athleticism. He was a unicorn prospect that should have never fallen in the draft. Kancey is not that. A much better comparison for Kancey would be someone like Ed Oliver. Similar freakish athleticism and production coming into the NFL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Until Kanceys arms grow 2", he's not really a direct comparison to Aaron Donald's measurements. Why isn't Ade getting Donald comps? He's 6'2" 280. Edited March 30, 2023 by Jeezla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 33 minutes ago, Ozzy said: How is it silly? One is comparing them because they are almost physically identical in terms of those numbers height, weight and workout performance. Silly? Put Kancey on the Florida Gators he would still get the Aaron Donald comparison and he should! Fact is Aaron Donald flat out dominated in games he played in college, not sure Kancey was on his level at all but both are physically identical so something is potentially missing with Kancey, not sure what. Yeah no one is comparing Karl Brooks to Donald because he is quite a bit taller, ran what a 5 second 40 time or something like that, poor vertical etc. But even with him he would get it but athletically they do not match up, Kancey and Donald do so I am saying what is missing with Kancey and why in the hell did he not dominate in college being that athletic? Aaron Donald wasn't just quick, he was extremely strong. Kancey is quick but doesn't show anywhere near that strength. That's why his production is considerably lower than Donald's. Not being Aaron Donald isn't a flaw but they aren't that comparable. My view is that Kancey's small size and short arms will hurt him in the NFL and he'll get dominated regularly by bigger interior players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, sparky151 said: Aaron Donald wasn't just quick, he was extremely strong. Kancey is quick but doesn't show anywhere near that strength. That's why his production is considerably lower than Donald's. Not being Aaron Donald isn't a flaw but they aren't that comparable. My view is that Kancey's small size and short arms will hurt him in the NFL and he'll get dominated regularly by bigger interior players. Donald was quicker than Kancey was on the field, sure Kancey had a better 3 cone but Donald's 28.5 TFLs in one season shows that as does his college domination. And obviously he is stronger, that is the only thing that maybe is why Kancey was not more productive, could not use that strength and quickness because he only had the quickness. 35 minutes ago, Jeezla said: Until Kanceys arms grow 2", he's not really a direct comparison to Aaron Donald's measurements. Why isn't Ade getting Donald comps? He's 6'2" 280. Sure the arms are not the same but the height, weight and most of the athletic testing is pretty damn close. Didn't Adetomiwa play on the edge most of his career, and honestly outside of this past season I never noticed him all that much. Not playing DT every game was a big part of that. Sure one can project moving to DT similar to Solomon Thomas but see how that worked out for him, not so well. Seemed like Thomas could make that switch and really never has at a high level and is just a backup now in the NFL on the edge not at DT. Not sure Adetomiwa played at 280 his entire career at Northwestern either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I'm starting to like Keanu Benton a lot as good pick in the 2nd round. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, General Tso said: I'm starting to like Keanu Benton a lot as good pick in the 2nd round. Dude is very good and could be a great 2nd round pick. But I would take Siaki Ika and Mazi Smith over him so that might knock him down into the 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 3 hours ago, Ozzy said: I agree, I feel he is hiding something with the bench press, sure it is not everything but might explain why he was not more dominating in college. With those physical numbers he should have destroyed every single OL he went up against, he did not do that. He had 3 sacks against what ended up as a 3-7 Virginia team then 1.5 against Rhode Island, so 4.5 total sacks of his 7 against those two schools. Year before that he was a bit more consistent throughout the year, but still those tackle numbers are pretty low for a guy so fast and athlete are they not? He is promising but why did he not totally dominate more than he did with athletic numbers like that? Probably is moved into the 1st round now with those outstanding numbers, was a 2nd rounder before I thought, preseason I had him 1st round but honestly he did not wow like I thought he was going to this year. Will be interesting how he does in the NFL again obviously better competition. He should have totally destroyed the competition he went up against being that athletic. He only has identical measurements, size, speed, and testing outside of obviously the bench. How can one not compare him? Hell he trains with Aaron Donald as well.... And it is not like there are tons of other guys to compare him to. We have efficiency data at the ready now, no one cares about sacks and tackles anymore, it's about affecting the QB. 22.2% pass rush win rate for Kancey. That's absurd, Carter had an excellent 15.8% for reference. Kancey dominated this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTTRUTH Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 6 hours ago, THE DUKE said: Oh, you're 100% drafting him to run in his style more than to fit your specific scheme. Let him be him and I see a guy who has 1500+ APY. Wow that's lofty. Not saying I love him or hate him. But "average" 1500? Over what, 1 season, 4?? Pretty lofty numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 8 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: We have efficiency data at the ready now, no one cares about sacks and tackles anymore, it's about affecting the QB. 22.2% pass rush win rate for Kancey. That's absurd, Carter had an excellent 15.8% for reference. Kancey dominated this year. No one cares about actually production, ok how about no that is not true. Jalen Carter is not a great pass rusher for one and who cares what his pass rush win rate is, dude is a force against the run and the pass...but has some massive legal trouble obviously and potentially helped kill his teammate and a Georgia staffer so he has to correct some things a bit... Here were the top guys before the 2022 draft in pass rush win rate. Anyone even know who Anthony Ekpe is? Currently not in the NFL at all. Oh and Travon Walker is 148th because the reference article was talking about him, the #1 overall pick and a guy I thought had a pretty damn solid rookie year. Anthony Ekpe - Ball St - 30.7 % win rate, 27 pressures Nik Bonitto - Oklahoma - 29% win rate, 52 pressures Kingsley Enagbare - S. Carolina - 25.9% win rate, 45 pressures Taylor Riggins - Buffalo - 25.7% win rate, 20 pressures Aidan Hutchinson - Michigan - 25% win rate, 74 pressures Alex Wright - UAB - 23.8% win rate, 51 pressures George Karlaftis - Purdue - 23.6% win rate, 54 pressures Troy Hairston II - C. Michigan - 22.9% win rate, 61 pressures Arnold Ebiketie - Penn State - 22.9% win rate, 52 pressures Kayvon Thibodeaux - Oregon - 22.8% win rate, 47 pressures And then a little bit further down the list we get to Travon Walker... 148. Travon Walker: 10.1% win rate, 34 pressures Then you got this state with "true pass set" "Below is a list of top ten best True Pass Set win rates according to Pro Football Focus (names in bold are players who appear on both lists)." Anthony Ekpe - Ball St - 51.7 % win rate - 16 pressures Taylor Riggins - Buffalo - 46.9% win rate - 11 pressures Alex Wright - UAB - 39.5% win rate, 30 pressures Kingsley Enagbare - S. Carolina - 39.2% win rate, 24 pressures Tre Williams - Arkansas - 39.2% win rate, 13 pressures Aidan Hutchinson - Michigan - 37% win rate, 44 pressures Kayvon Thibodeaux - Oregon - 36.2% win rate, 28 pressures Kameron Toomer - Nevada - 34.8% win rate, 11 pressures Arnold Ebiketie - Penn State - 34.7% win rate, 33 pressures Tyreke Smith - Ohio St. - 34.2% win rate, 23 pressures So stats can be a bit deceptive. Kancey have 22% whatever, no he did not dominate in college football. He did not control the game as much as he should of being that athletic which in itself could be inflated because the numbers were from a pro day and not a combine. Did well sure, played well sure but total domination like Donald in college, absolutely not. Here is this current season of guys on the edge with win rates for example etc. Mind you obviously double teamed players and extra blocking is not included in the stat which also makes it deceptive. Pitt blitzes linebackers all the time to single up DL but then leave the secondary with problems but go all out for the sack. Sure helps the DL that is for sure and they do use creative pressures which helps also. Would be awesome if Kancey is as dominating as you think, but if he was he would be a top 10 pick not a bottom of the 1st round pick or a 2nd round pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 37 minutes ago, Ozzy said: No one cares about actually production, ok how about no that is not true. Jalen Carter is not a great pass rusher for one and who cares what his pass rush win rate is, dude is a force against the run and the pass...but has some massive legal trouble obviously and potentially helped kill his teammate and a Georgia staffer so he has to correct some things a bit... Here were the top guys before the 2022 draft in pass rush win rate. Anyone even know who Anthony Ekpe is? Currently not in the NFL at all. Oh and Travon Walker is 148th because the reference article was talking about him, the #1 overall pick and a guy I thought had a pretty damn solid rookie year. Anthony Ekpe - Ball St - 30.7 % win rate, 27 pressures Nik Bonitto - Oklahoma - 29% win rate, 52 pressures Kingsley Enagbare - S. Carolina - 25.9% win rate, 45 pressures Taylor Riggins - Buffalo - 25.7% win rate, 20 pressures Aidan Hutchinson - Michigan - 25% win rate, 74 pressures Alex Wright - UAB - 23.8% win rate, 51 pressures George Karlaftis - Purdue - 23.6% win rate, 54 pressures Troy Hairston II - C. Michigan - 22.9% win rate, 61 pressures Arnold Ebiketie - Penn State - 22.9% win rate, 52 pressures Kayvon Thibodeaux - Oregon - 22.8% win rate, 47 pressures And then a little bit further down the list we get to Travon Walker... 148. Travon Walker: 10.1% win rate, 34 pressures Then you got this state with "true pass set" "Below is a list of top ten best True Pass Set win rates according to Pro Football Focus (names in bold are players who appear on both lists)." Anthony Ekpe - Ball St - 51.7 % win rate - 16 pressures Taylor Riggins - Buffalo - 46.9% win rate - 11 pressures Alex Wright - UAB - 39.5% win rate, 30 pressures Kingsley Enagbare - S. Carolina - 39.2% win rate, 24 pressures Tre Williams - Arkansas - 39.2% win rate, 13 pressures Aidan Hutchinson - Michigan - 37% win rate, 44 pressures Kayvon Thibodeaux - Oregon - 36.2% win rate, 28 pressures Kameron Toomer - Nevada - 34.8% win rate, 11 pressures Arnold Ebiketie - Penn State - 34.7% win rate, 33 pressures Tyreke Smith - Ohio St. - 34.2% win rate, 23 pressures So stats can be a bit deceptive. Kancey have 22% whatever, no he did not dominate in college football. He did not control the game as much as he should of being that athletic which in itself could be inflated because the numbers were from a pro day and not a combine. Did well sure, played well sure but total domination like Donald in college, absolutely not. Here is this current season of guys on the edge with win rates for example etc. Mind you obviously double teamed players and extra blocking is not included in the stat which also makes it deceptive. Pitt blitzes linebackers all the time to single up DL but then leave the secondary with problems but go all out for the sack. Sure helps the DL that is for sure and they do use creative pressures which helps also. Would be awesome if Kancey is as dominating as you think, but if he was he would be a top 10 pick not a bottom of the 1st round pick or a 2nd round pick. Lol giving me a list of EDGE player win rates as we talk about an IDL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Lol giving me a list of EDGE player win rates as we talk about an IDL. Get your own list, I did not find one on a quick search. I do not subscribe to PFF or whatever it is. But give me a pass rush win rate stat, then I show a stat where a player who is not even in the NFL had the highest "pass rush win rate" last season on the edge before the draft. Also who the #1 pick in last years draft and his pass rush win rate, so maybe that little tiny stat is not all you make it out to be. Jaquelin Roy I saw had a pass rush win rate of 14% or something, Colby Wooden 15%, and neither one of them are even pass rushing DTs, especially not Roy. So I am to believe a pass rush win rate stat is better than getting actual TFLs or sacks, no thank you. Kancey did not dominate college football last year, further proof his lack of any major award that would came his way if he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Lol giving me a list of EDGE player win rates as we talk about an IDL. "Pass Rush Win Rate for IDL of the 2023 #NFLDraft:" Calijah Kancey: 22.7 Jalen Carter: 16.8% Bryan Bresee: 14% Tyler Davis: 13.7% Bryon Young: 12.4% Siaka Ika: 12.1% Mazi Smith: 11.4% Jaquelin Roy: 10.1% Ruke Orhorhoro: 9.9% Gervon Dexter: 8.3% Well I did your work for you now. Buuuuttt it was posted in January 3, and obviously Ruke is not in the draft and neither is Tyler Davis.... Also not sure if that is all the best or what because where is Benton and Brooks, just some dude on twitter posted it. But sure great, good win rate but Jaylen Twyman got 10.5 sacks last year at Pitt, they clearly know how to free up DTs for sacks and Twyman was a crap athlete compared to Kancey. Then some more work for you, and obviously Wyatt benefited greatly from what was around him, Travis Jones is a dude and not a super surprise there, crazy impressive at that size and he did great for the Ravens and should have been a much higher pick than he was. 2022 NFL Draft "Career pass-rush win rates from head-up-or-inside-the-tackle alignments on 3rd-and-4-plus:" Devonte Wyatt (23%) Travis Jones (21%) Cameron Thomas (21%) Curtis Brooks (20%) Jalen Carter (18%) Josh Paschal (15%) Logan Hall (15%) DeMarvin Leal (10%) Travon Walker (6%) Christian Barmore was near the top the year previous, and I saw Redmond on OU had..... "Redmond recorded a 27% win rate on true pass rushes, which was the sixth-highest mark among Power Five interior defensive linemen." Might be deceptive because not sure he played that much in 2019 compared to this past season, but that was his "rate". And that was 6th highest at that high percentage.... Edited March 31, 2023 by Ozzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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