B-Rex vs The Hunter: The Great Eagles Edge Debate

[TheRealMcCoy]

40 minutes ago, Danger said:

Sacks are everything. Right?

The stats that fit your narrative are the only ones that matter.

[Scalamania]

10 hours ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

Does the fanbase overrate him some? Sure. Is he just your run of the mill average DE? No. The fact that he has had the longevity shows that isn't the case. He has been a good player for us.

9 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

BG is def underrated by some of our fanbase.

 

So which one is it? I obviously don't think he's underrated by this fan base and I'll stand by the fact that he's just an average player that everyone overrates but apparently that's not me being honest lol. 

[Broadway Joe]

I'm not the biggest Brandon Graham the player fan, but he is not average player for most of his career but neither a pro bowl caliber player. Pressures are his crutch, and they're not an official stat for a reason, nor are they always a win for the DE. 

I do believe BG is a better franchise player than Trent Cole, who also never took over games but unlike Graham, he was erased on divisional games.

The best way of describing Brandon Graham is a good offense that moves the ball but sucks at the red zone. 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

2 hours ago, Scalamania said:

 

So which one is it? I obviously don't think he's underrated by this fan base and I'll stand by the fact that he's just an average player that everyone overrates but apparently that's not me being honest lol. 

I mean definitionally he isn’t an average player lol. It is just not true. Average NFL DE’s don’t start in the league for 10+ years. Regardless of how you view him calling him average is simply not true. 
 

Derek Barnett is an average NFL DE. Brandon Graham is not. 

[Danger]

Bet you they also think this was BG's best year of his career.

[Scalamania]

37 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

I mean definitionally he isn’t an average player lol. It is just not true. Average NFL DE’s don’t start in the league for 10+ years. Regardless of how you view him calling him average is simply not true. 
 

Derek Barnett is an average NFL DE. Brandon Graham is not. 

Maybe my parameters are different because I would not consider Derek Barnett an average NFL DE. 

[Scalamania]

34 minutes ago, Danger said:

Bet you they also think this was BG's best year of his career.

Nah - probably 2016 or 2017. 

[Broadway Joe]

44 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

.Derek Barnett is an average NFL DE.

Derek Barnett is not an average DE, he's a below average one. 

[Nabbs4u]

53 minutes ago, Danger said:

Bet you they also think this was BG's best year of his career.

Sacks is all that matters so......🤷‍♂️

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

37 minutes ago, Scalamania said:

Maybe my parameters are different because I would not consider Derek Barnett an average NFL DE. 

Do you mean average starter? You are aware how many DE's are in the NFL correct? And how many of them never start football games or impact their teams in any way defensively?

Average is a pretty well defined term is my point. Calling BG average is in no way even remotely close to correct. Even if you disagree on DB there is no way you seriously believe BG is just a JAG DE over the past 12 years right?

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

22 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Sacks is all that matters so......🤷‍♂️

Sacks are the most overrated stat in the NFL by a long margin.

[Jeezla]

16 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

Sacks are the most overrated stat in the NFL by a long margin.

I think "pressures" are. We all know what a sack is, but "pressure" can be pretty vague. We all have the same definition of a "sack", but PFF might define a "pressure" differently than ESPN or some other stat tracker.

The actual most overrated stat is "tackles". Alex Singleton and TJ Edwards are not top 10 LB's.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Jeezla

[Scalamania]

18 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

Do you mean average starter? You are aware how many DE's are in the NFL correct? And how many of them never start football games or impact their teams in any way defensively?

Average is a pretty well defined term is my point. Calling BG average is in no way even remotely close to correct. Even if you disagree on DB there is no way you seriously believe BG is just a JAG DE over the past 12 years right?

I would not consider Barnett an average starter or average defensive end; I happen to think Derek Barnett is pretty bad at football. 

...and yes, I believe the Brandon Graham first and foremost is overrated by this fanbase because of his longevity and that we have a slew of disappointing picks, especially during that time. I also believe that Brandon Graham is just an average NFL Defensive End - we have this same debate every year about Graham and I am fine being the outlier (or my opinion being wrong or I don't know what I'm talking about or I'm not being honest which how you guys always shape this) but my mind isn't going to change. We've had the same debate for the past 4 off-season's I feel like and nobodies stance has or will change. 

I don't want to continue to detract from the prospect thread so if someone wants to move this to the off-season thread we can continue there or we can just agree to disagree and you can tell me that my opinion is wrong and we will get to revisit it next off-season when it's inevitably brought up again lol. 

[Jeezla]

The way I see it,
BG is above average/good, with a like 7 year peak of firmly "good". Trent Cole was above average/good, with a 5 year peak of "great". Despite PFF run D grades saying otherwise, I think Trent Cole was just as good vs the run as BG too. Trent was an animal when he was at the top of his game. My 2nd favorite defensive Eagle of the 2000's after Dawk. Would have been great to see '07 to '11 Trent Cole play with a prime Fletcher Cox.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Jeezla

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

35 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

I think "pressures" are. We all know what a sack is, but "pressure" can be pretty vague. We all have the same definition of a "sack", but PFF might define a "pressure" differently than ESPN or some other stat tracker.

The actual most overrated stat is "tackles". Alex Singleton and TJ Edwards are not top 10 LB's.

Sacks are insanely overrated and rarely actually give you an indication of what a player did on a snap. If a DE beats a double team and forces a QB into the waiting arms of his teammate who really made that play? Who gets the credit for that play? Not to say they aren't important to look at whatsoever... but most fans will judge edge players by their sack numbers pretty much exclusively and that isn't a great indicator of play. Ideally you want a pass rusher with a solid pressure % and a decent sack total cause that means they are actually getting home. Not saying sacks aren't important.... just that they are extremely overrated.

Sure, some sites aren't great at defining what a pressure is and isn't and there will be some disagreement on pressure rates and other stats because it isn't an objective metric. That said if you look at the full picture you can get a pretty good idea of whose performing well and whose sack numbers might be inflated due to other factors.

I feel like tackles are looked at the right way by most fans in todays NFL tbh. Don't think many people are looking at tackle numbers as a super important metric.