Jroc04 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 5 hours ago, Broadway Joe said: But most of all all time greats didn't play here for their second half of their careers I think, hence why someone like Graham who is just a home town hero instead of an all time great has that accolade. Well that and our now long lasting inability of drafting and developing a franchise edge rusher. Graham doesn’t have the numbers but I think he’s a better football player than a Trent Cole who’s got good sack numbers. Also it’s rare guys stay with one team. Like, really rare. Even if it’s a year or two or three somewhere else. Doesn’t happen much, great player or not. Don’t know how bad the Eagles are with drafting edges but it doesn’t seem like it’s too much worse than most teams on its face. I could be way off though. Just quickly thought about the Cowboys and besides Ware can’t think of anyone the passed 30 years that was that impressive. Lawrence maybe, but he’s marginal. Micah clearly but he’s got some years to go still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 12 hours ago, Jroc04 said: Graham doesn’t have the numbers but I think he’s a better football player than a Trent Cole who’s got good sack numbers. Also it’s rare guys stay with one team. Like, really rare. Even if it’s a year or two or three somewhere else. Doesn’t happen much, great player or not. Don’t know how bad the Eagles are with drafting edges but it doesn’t seem like it’s too much worse than most teams on its face. I could be way off though. Just quickly thought about the Cowboys and besides Ware can’t think of anyone the passed 30 years that was that impressive. Lawrence maybe, but he’s marginal. Micah clearly but he’s got some years to go still. I saw a graphic a few years back that the eagles lead the NFL in sacks since it became a stat. That is probably still true especially after last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 22 hours ago, Jroc04 said: Graham doesn’t have the numbers but I think he’s a better football player than a Trent Cole Huge disagree. Trent was a beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downundermike Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Jeezla said: Huge disagree. Trent was a beast. Trent is a better player. The only thing Graham has over him is longevity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 10 hours ago, downundermike said: 12 hours ago, Jeezla said: Huge disagree. Trent was a beast. Trent is a better player. The only thing Graham has over him is longevity Graham was definitely the better player against the run. Just looked up their grades on PFF for the sake of it: I feel like BG is almost always doing his job correctly like the little things with how he collapses the pocket, crashes down the LOS on runs away from him and sets a great edge like I get why he probably grades higher for PFF than people would expect with the low sack numbers. Trent was undoubtedly the better pass rusher, especially from a finishing perspective. His peak as a player definitely wasn't as long though. Also, looking at their grades I realized just now that both Trent and Brandon's highest graded years came in their first year's with the two Jims (Washburn & Schwartz) and their heavy wide 9 front usages. Those defenses if anything allow the pass rushers to just pin their ears back and cause chaos. But, yeah I definitely think Graham gets slept on as a player. I really appreciate his game even if I'll never confuse him with Myles Garrett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalamania Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 Brandon Graham doesn’t get slept on he’s just massively overrated by this fan base - he’s never been nothing more than an average player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downundermike Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 2 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said: Graham was definitely the better player against the run. Just looked up their grades on PFF for the sake of it: I feel like BG is almost always doing his job correctly like the little things with how he collapses the pocket, crashes down the LOS on runs away from him and sets a great edge like I get why he probably grades higher for PFF than people would expect with the low sack numbers. Trent was undoubtedly the better pass rusher, especially from a finishing perspective. His peak as a player definitely wasn't as long though. Also, looking at their grades I realized just now that both Trent and Brandon's highest graded years came in their first year's with the two Jims (Washburn & Schwartz) and their heavy wide 9 front usages. Those defenses if anything allow the pass rushers to just pin their ears back and cause chaos. But, yeah I definitely think Graham gets slept on as a player. I really appreciate his game even if I'll never confuse him with Myles Garrett. Did not read after PFF. Their ratings are a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Scalamania said: Brandon Graham doesn’t get slept on he’s just massively overrated by this fan base - he’s never been nothing more than an average player. Only singular reason you could even say this with a straight face and actually believe it is because like the masses, you are obsessed with the "Sack". If you don't sack the QB, you must suck mentality as a DE/OLB which has always been a joke! Graham is not only very good to great at stopping the run (is actually part f the job description) he pressures QB at a rate over the last decade that puts him into a different category when compared to his peers. Disrupting the QB in any fashion, is a Win for a pass rusher. Forcing arrant throws, incomplete passes, punts is a win for pass rushers. Pressuring the QB into another players arms Sotheby's can get the sack, is a win for pass rushers! This BS narrative BG never had double digit sacks before last season so he sucked, wasn't equally as impact full on the field as the overall sack leaders year in year out is complete crap. He has been. Just not for those who get thier panties wet thinking the "Sack" is the end all be all when determining greatness. https://michigan.rivals.com/news/tom-brady-brandon-graham-each-chosen-as-two-of-the-nfl-s-best-since-2010?yptr=yahoo?src=rss Quote "He owns two of the top three pass-rush win rates of the decade, and only two edge rushers have a higher pressure rate over the past 10 years. Edited April 2, 2023 by Nabbs4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted April 2, 2023 Author Share Posted April 2, 2023 16 hours ago, downundermike said: Trent is a better player. The only thing Graham has over him is longevity I don’t think it’s such a dramatic yes or no but that’s a ridiculous statement. Even if we took that statement as face value, Graham is more versatile, better run defender, better setting edge. Besides sack numbers there’s nothing I’m giving Cole hands down. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalamania Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 3 hours ago, Jroc04 said: I don’t think it’s such a dramatic yes or no but that’s a ridiculous statement. Even if we took that statement as face value, Graham is more versatile, better run defender, better setting edge. Besides sack numbers there’s nothing I’m giving Cole hands down. Sack numbers and recency bias* - at no point has Brandon Graham had a better career than Cole. The only thing he’s got is a bunch of mediocre/average years in which this fan base was looking for a decent first round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Scalamania said: Sack numbers and recency bias* - at no point has Brandon Graham had a better career than Cole. The only thing he’s got is a bunch of mediocre/average years in which this fan base was looking for a decent first round pick. Framing your argument as "Graham has never been better than average" screams that you are just not being honest lol. I think saying Cole was the better player is very fair. You can say that BG has never been a good to great pass rusher. You can't say he has never been better than an average DE though. It's just not true. Last year he had over 10 sacks. He was never a dominant pass rusher true, but he was very good at other things that did make up for that. Does the fanbase overrate him some? Sure. Is he just your run of the mill average DE? No. The fact that he has had the longevity shows that isn't the case. He has been a good player for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted April 3, 2023 Author Share Posted April 3, 2023 3 hours ago, Scalamania said: Sack numbers and recency bias* - at no point has Brandon Graham had a better career than Cole. The only thing he’s got is a bunch of mediocre/average years in which this fan base was looking for a decent first round pick. Yea man. You’re not being honest if you think he’s just been average his whole career. We can end the discussion. I’m not saying he’s been a world beater and there may be some part of me that would prefer a guy like Cole over Graham at times. Babin was a good pass rusher too. Doesn’t mean I want him on my team. But my statement that Graham “is a better football player” than Cole I’ll just take and hold as my opinion obviously. But your take is way to far off base for any kind of back and forth. But hey, that’s your opinion too. It’s just too down the spectrum to debate it. I don’t think there’s anyone in the NFL in the passed decade that would remotely agree with you. I mean there was a time that Cole went like 15 weeks or something without a sack during the course of two years. There’s just no way “Graham hasn’t been better that Cole at any point” holds any water to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 11 hours ago, downundermike said: Did not read after PFF. Their ratings are a joke. I mean you said Trent was better at everything which is inaccurate and the main point there lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: I think saying Cole was the better player is very fair. You can say that BG has never been a good to great pass rusher. You can't say he has never been better than an average DE though. It's just not true. Last year he had over 10 sacks. He was never a dominant pass rusher true, but he was very good at other things that did make up for that. Cole was definitely the better pass rusher at finishing, but getting away from sack #s for a second here. The most pressures Cole had in a season was 77 (not his highest sack season) in 2010 while Graham's highest was 83 in 2016 and he also had 77 the two seasons after that. Cole's next highest was 64 & 67. BG is def underrated by some of our fanbase. Edited April 3, 2023 by TheRealMcCoy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 1 hour ago, TheRealMcCoy said: I mean you said Trent was better at everything which is inaccurate and the main point there lol. Sacks are everything. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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