EDGE Nolan Smith | 1st / 30ovr | 2023 Eagles Draft

[Nabbs4u]

Nolan reminds me of Jordan Davis. 

Stuck behind a deep DL/DE rotation where he literally isn't getting many snaps. That typically occurs when those playing in front of you are Pro Bowl type players.

Like Davis this year, I believe next year Nolan will get more playing time as a #3 (BG role) , thus more chances to make an impact.

It's like being a pinch hitter in baseball, produce with your one at bat, you'll get several chances or you won't be used. 

Unlike most, I am actually fine redshirting his rookie season. Basically means Sweet, BG and Hassan all stayed healthy. Like Cox/Hargrave last year.

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

Hard to be worried about a player who has played under 10% of the snaps on defense this season. His time will come it just isn't this year.

[Broadway Joe]

He's barely playing because he is not good (yet) nor is he behind a deep group, our depth at edge is very thin and if he had something to offer he'd be seeing the field more than 5 snaps instead of having our Reddick/Sweat nearly 85+% of the snaps, you can see the coaching staff doesn't trust him. This is much like Dean last year that we were assuming he would be good because of his pedigree despite not winning playing time as a rookie. 

 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

30 minutes ago, Broadway Joe said:

He's barely playing because he is not good (yet) nor is he behind a deep group, our depth at edge is very thin and if he had something to offer he'd be seeing the field more than 5 snaps instead of having our Reddick/Sweat nearly 85+% of the snaps, you can see the coaching staff doesn't trust him. This is much like Dean last year that we were assuming he would be good because of his pedigree despite not winning playing time as a rookie. 

 

We have Milton, Carter, and BG who all are playing snaps at DE. Nolan is an undersized rookie who is backing up our best defensive player in Reddick. Him not getting snaps has everything to do with us being extremely deep on the DL. Maybe he isn't ready. Maybe he busts. Acting like his current snap count is evidence of any of that doesn't stick. He is mainly playing ST's this year with the hope that next year he can earn a bigger snap share into becoming a full time starter year 3.

Outside of the freaks this is just how the Eagles have handled rookies. Besides JC and Smitty our rookies have all been role players year one. I'll wait for actual evidence that we should be worried over manufactured pessimism. 

[Jeezla]

Like I said on page 1, he has no speed to power, he just has speed. He'd be better off learning how to play traditional off-ball LB (where he'd still be a huge project) rather than trying to become another Reddick/Von. He will never be Reddick, but you might be able to turn him into a less stiff Nigel Bradham if you quit pretending he's a pass rusher. Less stiff Nigel Bradham sure as hell doesn't justify a round 1 pick, but at least it's better than a full bust. |
Ades hasn't been any better and played even less than Nolan, so I can't complain about Howie bombing this pick too much since I probably woulda bombed it too, but I also think Indy is messing up by making Ades gain weight and be a DT instead of losing 10 lbs and becoming an edge.

Figured Tyree Wilson would look like a bust too. Was happy the Raiders took him over Carter.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Jeezla

[Broadway Joe]

15 hours ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

We have Milton, Carter, and BG who all are playing snaps at DE. Nolan is an undersized rookie who is backing up our best defensive player in Reddick. Him not getting snaps has everything to do with us being extremely deep on the DL. Maybe he isn't ready. Maybe he busts. Acting like his current snap count is evidence of any of that doesn't stick. He is mainly playing ST's this year with the hope that next year he can earn a bigger snap share into becoming a full time starter year 3.

Outside of the freaks this is just how the Eagles have handled rookies. Besides JC and Smitty our rookies have all been role players year one. I'll wait for actual evidence that we should be worried over manufactured pessimism. 

It's not manufactured pessimism, it is legit concern based on what we have seen. Not everything has to look every time or "he/we'll be fine" is not any better. 

I'm not saying he's a bust already, he's just not looking good and offering nothing on defense yet. Maybe the team should have tried to increase his snap count earlier in the season. 

Not bashing the pick because I really liked it at the time. Sadly (and with the benefit of hindsight) we would've been better picking a CB there since he will bring nothing this season (barring of course, a Barnett type of play on his rookie year). Still have a bit of hope for Ringo, but he's looking like another guy who's a tweener and the coaching staff doesn't trust. 

 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

9 minutes ago, Broadway Joe said:

It's not manufactured pessimism, it is legit concern based on what we have seen. Not everything has to look every time or "he/we'll be fine" is not any better. 

I'm not saying he's a bust already, he's just not looking good and offering nothing on defense yet. Maybe the team should have tried to increase his snap count earlier in the season. 

Not bashing the pick because I really liked it at the time. Sadly (and with the benefit of hindsight) we would've been better picking a CB there since he will bring nothing this season (barring of course, a Barnett type of play on his rookie year). Still have a bit of hope for Ringo, but he's looking like another guy who's a tweener and the coaching staff doesn't trust. 

 

You liked the pick right? What specifically have you seen on the field that has you worried about him developing into a real player in the next two years?

[Broadway Joe]

15 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

You liked the pick right? What specifically have you seen on the field that has you worried about him developing into a real player in the next two years?

I liked the pick, but not because I liked it means he is or will be good, I very well have been wrong.

As I said, he is way undersized to play at edge, he is getting bodied by OT left and right, he looks lost in coverage, he doesn't seem to have the the instincts either to move off the ball, I like his motor and effort though. 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

12 minutes ago, Broadway Joe said:

I liked the pick, but not because I liked it means he is or will be good, I very well have been wrong.

As I said, he is way undersized to play at edge, he is getting bodied by OT left and right, he looks lost in coverage, he doesn't seem to have the the instincts either to move off the ball, I like his motor and effort though. 

He is essentially the exact same size as Hasson Reddick... but you liked the pick and you knew about his size but are worried about it now? Odd.

He is playing like a rookie who is barely getting in the game. Would we all prefer if he was out there playing 20 snaps a game and having a real impact? Of course. That just isn't reality though a lot of the time for these young guys. He needs to improve, but having bust worries about a guy who has played in under 70 snaps in 10 games just seems illogical to me if you actually liked him in the draft. That doesn't mean he won't bust it simply means there isn't even close to enough data to make a determination yet. Same thing with Davis last season who now looks like a very good player for the Eagles now. 

One thing I can see when he plays is he is fast. Very fast. And he has nice length to play on the edge as well. I think he has overall been pretty solid on ST's this season and him and Ringo are unironically part of the reason why we are very improved there which is a good sign. He has the tools to be a starter in the league, lets see if the Eagles can develop him into one.

[Nabbs4u]

I Remember this same exact conversation occurring last year, same concerns regarding Jordan Davis. 

Now Davis is getting more reps, more playing time, he looks drastically better then he was as a Rookie.

If this doesn't occur NEXT year with Nolan by all means bump or create , the Nolan Smith is a bust thread. 

Some of you are upset because the Eagles currently have two of the best Pass Rushers in the NFL when you look at win rate, pressure and sacks but a Rookie, should take snaps away from them? Unreal.

[Broadway Joe]

1 hour ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

He is essentially the exact same size as Hasson Reddick... but you liked the pick and you knew about his size but are worried about it now? Odd.

He is playing like a rookie who is barely getting in the game. Would we all prefer if he was out there playing 20 snaps a game and having a real impact? Of course. That just isn't reality though a lot of the time for these young guys. He needs to improve, but having bust worries about a guy who has played in under 70 snaps in 10 games just seems illogical to me if you actually liked him in the draft. That doesn't mean he won't bust it simply means there isn't even close to enough data to make a determination yet. Same thing with Davis last season who now looks like a very good player for the Eagles now. 

One thing I can see when he plays is he is fast. Very fast. And he has nice length to play on the edge as well. I think he has overall been pretty solid on ST's this season and him and Ringo are unironically part of the reason why we are very improved there which is a good sign. He has the tools to be a starter in the league, lets see if the Eagles can develop him into one.

Well yeah obviously, because now I have seen him against NFL talent. Unlike most people in a discussion forum (ironically?) I change my opinion when presented with new information. 

He is having very limited playing time, but precisely because he is not good. This team is more than willing to play rookies on prominent roles if they feel they're good enough to start. Is he done? Of course not, but his lack of playing time and how he has looked when given the chance. He has played 4,9 and 5 snaps on the last three games, very difficult to contribute with those numbers but given the fact that Barnett has been inactive two of those three games, one would think he'd be given more chances if he earned them.

He's not a bust yet, but at this point he can't be anything other than a disappointment as a contributor, because it isn't like he is in a Jurgens type of situation as a rookie. Concerns are very valid at this point.   

1 hour ago, Nabbs4u said:

I Remember this same exact conversation occurring last year, same concerns regarding Jordan Davis. 

Now Davis is getting more reps, more playing time, he looks drastically better then he was as a Rookie.

If this doesn't occur NEXT year with Nolan by all means bump or create , the Nolan Smith is a bust thread. 

Some of you are upset because the Eagles currently have two of the best Pass Rushers in the NFL when you look at win rate, pressure and sacks but a Rookie, should take snaps away from them? Unreal.

Don't get confused, no one is calling him anything yet. But a conversation can be had for something other than "we are so great".

And in an ideal world Reddick/Sweat play 100% of the snaps and don't get tired ever, but they do and they're playing 85% which is bad for late in the games late in the season. For a team that emphasizes DL rotation and values backup DL more than starters on other positions, we are not seeing that with our edges and we should. So it is very valid to ask us what is going on with our 1st round pick that is not contributing?  

Edited November 22, 2023 by Broadway Joe

[Nabbs4u]

26 minutes ago, Broadway Joe said:

And in an ideal world Reddick/Sweat play 100% of the snaps and don't get tired ever, but they do and they're playing 85% which is bad for late in the games late in the season. For a team that emphasizes DL rotation and values backup DL more than starters on other positions, we are not seeing that with our edges and we should. So it is very valid to ask us what is going on with our 1st round pick that is not contributing?  

Unlike last year when we were steam rolling teams I think Desai is being forced to keep Sweat/Reddick on the field. Basically giving them the Garrett/Watt/Donald treatment. 

We aren't blowing teams out, every game is a dogfight so the usual DL rotation isn't occurring as much because we can't afford to Not have both on the field given thier overall play and impact for our defense in 2023.

You then add the fact BG is getting most reps for both Sweat/Hassan there's not much left for Smith to play.

As stated before unless you are a Jalen Carter a Devonta Smith who are/were clearly the best player at that position on the team, Eagle rookies don't typically play because of the depth in front of them. 

It's what we do as a Franchise and have vast majority of the time. Howie drafts for the future, not present unless that special talent is somehow available and drafted. 

There's a reason Nolan Smith lasted to pick 30, he's not Jalen Carter. Also doesn't immediately mean he's the next Derek Barnett. 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Nabbs4u

[Danger]

57 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Unlike last year when we were steam rolling teams I think Desai is being forced to keep Sweat/Reddick on the field. Basically giving them the Garrett/Watt/Donald treatment. 

We aren't blowing teams out, every game is a dogfight so the usual DL rotation isn't occurring as much because we can't afford to Not have both on the field given thier overall play and impact for our defense in 2023.

You then add the fact BG is getting most reps for both Sweat/Hassan there's not much left for Smith to play.

As stated before unless you are a Jalen Carter a Devonta Smith who are/were clearly the best player at that position on the team, Eagle rookies don't typically play because of the depth in front of them. 

It's what we do as a Franchise and have vast majority of the time. Howie drafts for the future, not present unless that special talent is somehow available and drafted. 

There's a reason Nolan Smith lasted to pick 30, he's not Jalen Carter. Also doesn't immediately mean he's the next Derek Barnett. 

 

Derek Barnett felt like a disappointing pick at the time. 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

1 hour ago, Broadway Joe said:

Well yeah obviously, because now I have seen him against NFL talent. Unlike most people in a discussion forum (ironically?) I change my opinion when presented with new information. 

He is having very limited playing time, but precisely because he is not good. This team is more than willing to play rookies on prominent roles if they feel they're good enough to start. Is he done? Of course not, but his lack of playing time and how he has looked when given the chance. He has played 4,9 and 5 snaps on the last three games, very difficult to contribute with those numbers but given the fact that Barnett has been inactive two of those three games, one would think he'd be given more chances if he earned them.

He's not a bust yet, but at this point he can't be anything other than a disappointment as a contributor, because it isn't like he is in a Jurgens type of situation as a rookie. Concerns are very valid at this point.   

Don't get confused, no one is calling him anything yet. But a conversation can be had for something other than "we are so great".

And in an ideal world Reddick/Sweat play 100% of the snaps and don't get tired ever, but they do and they're playing 85% which is bad for late in the games late in the season. For a team that emphasizes DL rotation and values backup DL more than starters on other positions, we are not seeing that with our edges and we should. So it is very valid to ask us what is going on with our 1st round pick that is not contributing?  

He is essentially in a very similar situation to Jurgens and Davis from the prior year lol. He is a rookie who has a ton of promise who is playing behind much better players and is not being forced to play. If we were a bad team with much less talent Nolan would be playing and he would have snaps where he looks bad and snaps where he looks good.... just like 99% of rookies in the NFL. You honestly think if Jurgens was forced to play regular snaps last year he would have been half as effective as he has been this year?

Just see absolutely no reason to change the opinion you had of him as a prospect in the draft to this point. At worst he is still just a big question mark which is completely fine for where he is in his career. If he is playing less than 10% of the snaps on defense in a year from now you can start to draw some conclusions, but it is simply way too early for this argument to hold any weight.

[Broadway Joe]

32 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

He is essentially in a very similar situation to Jurgens and Davis from the prior year lol. He is a rookie who has a ton of promise who is playing behind much better players and is not being forced to play. If we were a bad team with much less talent Nolan would be playing and he would have snaps where he looks bad and snaps where he looks good.... just like 99% of rookies in the NFL. You honestly think if Jurgens was forced to play regular snaps last year he would have been half as effective as he has been this year?

Just see absolutely no reason to change the opinion you had of him as a prospect in the draft to this point. At worst he is still just a big question mark which is completely fine for where he is in his career. If he is playing less than 10% of the snaps on defense in a year from now you can start to draw some conclusions, but it is simply way too early for this argument to hold any weight.

Maybe he wouldn't look as good, maybe he would. We'd have an opinion either way, just like we did with Jordan Davis. And if Jurgens had looked bad, we could talk about him looking bad. Why couldn't we? 

Maybe I had a higher opinion of him that some and that's why I feel he's looked super unimpressive when on the field.  He's not a big question mark, he is playing and seeing the field. Jurgens was a question mark, Centers don't rotate the way DL do. That doesn't mean Nolan is a finished product or that he's done, just that so far he hasn't looked good and it is very fair pointing it out. Coaches find a way to get players that can contribute on the field and this staff has shown it repeatedly.