ronjon1990 Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, big_palooka said: Here we go again.... Suggest giving a raw player coming off injury time to develop. "yOuR a McDaNiEls FaN bOy" Get a new material. You go back and look, I wasn't a fan of Wilson. But I'm patient enough to give it a year. Calling a raw prospect who shouldn't be starting a bust is just a ridiculous take. You and Ncough out here acting like teams don't take raw prospects every year early in the draft which is just an attempt to further discredit the FO because you think some new FO is going to waive a magic wand and erase 2 decades of losing I guess. Who's really delusional here? 1. You are. We've well established that bit. 2. A mere attempt isn't necessary. They manage just fine on their own. 3. No magic want required, just, you know, actually bei.g good at the job. The Saints did it seemingly overnight with Payton and Loomis. The Lions with their current crew. After bearing us in the Superbowl, Tampa Bay spent most of the 2000's and 2010's in the gutter too, and Arians and Co. got things turned around. Harbaugh and 9ers, then Shanny and Lynch. GMs and HCs come in and often make it apparent early on they mean business and get results. It's not the impossible or unrealistic task you McDaniels children make it out to be. And before you cite "oH but It WaSnT tWo DeCaDeS fOr ThOsE tEaMs", nope, sure wasn't. Too bad nobody has been on the Raiders roster for more than, what, 4 or 5 years? The job your pops and his frat bro are doing would suck whether with a Raiders logo or a Patriots logo or a Chiefs logo or even a Brown's logo, because it sucks- not because of the "culture" of 20 years nobody on the roster really have a hand in. And given the turnover they've made, if the roster is still one of a lover's culture, what does that say about your pops? They're his guys after all. 4. You are. Edited September 23, 2023 by ronjon1990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 14 minutes ago, Scoundrel said: I don’t think so. I just know he’s not going to be an elite get off guy but he can still improve in that area. I don’t think it’s a mental thing he just isn’t that twitchy. He’s a big dude. He can set the edge and should move inside on some passing downs. You guys need a LBer that can rush. A moveable piece to feed off his ability to absorb blocks. Send pressure off his side. I’m not familiar enough with the roster to know if you have that guy. This is a great point and analysis . We just signed Mykal Walker who can be a rush LB. It will be up to the coaching staffs on how we can maximize Wilson’s talent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: This is a great point and analysis . We just signed Mykal Walker who can be a rush LB. It will be up to the coaching staffs on how we can maximize Wilson’s talent Obviously out of a top 7 pick you expect more pass rush. But if you have additional pieces that can feed off of each other and free defenders up the whole unit would improve massively. Like not even a Micah Parsons level rush backer. A player like Frankie Luvu would even elevate with his pass rush acumen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 17 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Plenty of people wanted zilch to do with him as the pick. Also, is it not equally as asinine to repeatedly declare he's going to he great? Why? Because certain fans want him to be? I don’t see anyone declaring him great. As a matter of fact I’ve seen most people in this thread say that a) he wasn’t a reach (which is true) and b) that they aren’t going to completely judge a raw rookie after two games so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here to be honest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 44 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: The Saints did it seemingly overnight with Payton and Loomis. The Lions with their current crew. After bearing us in the Superbowl, Tampa Bay spent most of the 2000's and 2010's in the gutter too, and Arians and Co. got things turned around. Harbaugh and 9ers, then Shanny and Lynch. GMs and HCs come in and often make it apparent early on they mean business and get results. It's not the impossible or unrealistic task you McDaniels children make it out to be. I'm sure talent and QBs had nothing to do with any of that right? They just stepped in to teams that wasted 18 top 100 picks and took them to the moon right? Payton had Brees, Arian's Brady..... try harder. The Raiders are the Browns, Jags, Washington, etc. Teams that can't get right at QB or in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 59 minutes ago, Scoundrel said: Obviously out of a top 7 pick you expect more pass rush. But if you have additional pieces that can feed off of each other and free defenders up the whole unit would improve massively. Like not even a Micah Parsons level rush backer. A player like Frankie Luvu would even elevate with his pass rush acumen. Now there’s an underrated player…..Frankie Luvu…..maybe he starts to get his dues this year. I agree with the point also, I think the plan was obviously to start Jones and gradually feed Wilson in on a limited snap count and give him more and more time as the season continues and he fails experience. Now that has gone out of the window, I think we should still be doing the same thing but Koonce should replace Jones. What was best for Wilson before Jones meltdown is still best for him now. Koonce is a player who can apply pressure and get to the QB though he’s a little light in run support. Koonce could be that Frankie Luvu type player to me though not quite as good. Jordan Willis looked like he could be a similar type player in pre season too but I guess the FO didn’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 42 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I'm sure talent and QBs had nothing to do with any of that right? They just stepped in to teams that wasted 18 top 100 picks and took them to the moon right? Payton had Brees, Arian's Brady..... try harder. The Raiders are the Browns, Jags, Washington, etc. Teams that can't get right at QB or in the draft. You guys got it right. He’s just on the bench… AOC! AOC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 6 hours ago, big_palooka said: What do you not understand? He had a foot injury and couldn't practice. How's he going to practice pass rush moves with his hands when he can't take live reps. You are stretching so hard to discredit this pick it embarassing. Rip move is like riding a bike you don’t forget that. you can practice rip moves walking around with doorways punching bags etc. you can practice hand fighting technique sitting down or even on your knees. If he can walk on stage and get drafted he can practice technique drills lol wtf you wild dude. now spin I can understand being limited with a bad foot. You really haven’t played football have you? You learn hand technique in high school at the latest. And you constantly work on it that’s how you keep the oline hands off you. That’s how you establish inside hand placement. You’re exposing yourself here buddy. Look up Georgia dline drills on YouTube so you can see what their off season practices are like (I actually study those and use them on my players). I watched some high school stuff on him and like I thought he’s a “George” late bloomer light came on sr year and he had great size in Texas so he became a 3star dam near overnight. Wonder what happened at Tex a&m even the nfl combine has a bag drill where dline have to slap, spin, rip, dip so even the nfl expects prospects to have at least three moves in the toolbox. You don’t learn this in a nfl training camp dude. I see just cause he’s jmd/z first 1st rounder were not allowed to evaluate the two games he’s played. Ok so do we just ignore him till next year or the year after? We always evaluate rookies why new rules now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 59 minutes ago, FloydFan said: I don’t see anyone declaring him great. As a matter of fact I’ve seen most people in this thread say that a) he wasn’t a reach (which is true) and b) that they aren’t going to completely judge a raw rookie after two games so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here to be honest. Not judging him after 2 games. We’re judging his two games. That’s a difference Imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 6 hours ago, big_palooka said: Here we go again.... Suggest giving a raw player coming off injury time to develop. "yOuR a McDaNiEls FaN bOy" Get a new material. You go back and look, I wasn't a fan of Wilson. But I'm patient enough to give it a year. Calling a raw prospect who shouldn't be starting a bust is just a ridiculous take. You and Ncough out here acting like teams don't take raw prospects every year early in the draft which is just an attempt to further discredit the FO because you think some new FO is going to waive a magic wand and erase 2 decades of losing I guess. Who's really delusional here? Fair enough. Name me some raw de’s that were taken top10? Similar or equivalent to Wilson… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Not judging him after 2 games. We’re judging his two games. That’s a difference Imo. Seems like kind of a cop out tbh. Regardless anyone making sweeping judgements in this thread is only asking for egg on their face. Like I said I’ll reserve judgement until at the very least after the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: 1. You are. We've well established that bit. 2. A mere attempt isn't necessary. They manage just fine on their own. 3. No magic want required, just, you know, actually bei.g good at the job. The Saints did it seemingly overnight with Payton and Loomis. The Lions with their current crew. After bearing us in the Superbowl, Tampa Bay spent most of the 2000's and 2010's in the gutter too, and Arians and Co. got things turned around. Harbaugh and 9ers, then Shanny and Lynch. GMs and HCs come in and often make it apparent early on they mean business and get results. It's not the impossible or unrealistic task you McDaniels children make it out to be. And before you cite "oH but It WaSnT tWo DeCaDeS fOr ThOsE tEaMs", nope, sure wasn't. Too bad nobody has been on the Raiders roster for more than, what, 4 or 5 years? The job your pops and his frat bro are doing would suck whether with a Raiders logo or a Patriots logo or a Chiefs logo or even a Brown's logo, because it sucks- not because of the "culture" of 20 years nobody on the roster really have a hand in. And given the turnover they've made, if the roster is still one of a lover's culture, what does that say about your pops? They're his guys after all. 4. You are. We did the same for grudock picks… what’s so different now with jmdz picks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, FloydFan said: Seems like kind of a cop out tbh. Regardless anyone making sweeping judgements in this thread is only asking for egg on their face. Like I said I’ll reserve judgement until at the very least after the season. Sweeping judgments such as him looking like a reach…sounds more like observations Imo like I said he has Sunday night and we’ll give him all the reps his heart desires. I wanna see something. Not bosa plays but just look respectable look like you belong in the nfl. Show some shred of fundamental technique. You think that’s honestly asking too much? even cle as a rookie had a multi sack game iirc and a few other good games. Edited September 23, 2023 by NCOUGHMAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: I'm sure talent and QBs had nothing to do with any of that right? They just stepped in to teams that wasted 18 top 100 picks and took them to the moon right? Payton had Brees, Arian's Brady..... try harder. The Raiders are the Browns, Jags, Washington, etc. Teams that can't get right at QB or in the draft. You're so right, kiddo. They went out and signed Brees and Brady and all these other guys. We signed.....who? Jimmy ******* Garoppolo because Josh couldn't get his hands in Brady? You made my point- they're as clueless as you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 23 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: We did the same for grudock picks… what’s so different now with jmdz picks? Yup. Grudock sucked at drafting. McZeigler sucks too. But some people are just hellbent on these jokers as if they were responsible for the Patriots success, but not the Broncos fiasco. Almost like they don't know Josh and Dave were peripheral figures in running and stocking the Patriots and just riding coattails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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