bucksavage1 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 It’s going to depend how he progresses in the offseason . If there’s no growth then I’ll be worried Kolton Miller was one of the worst tackles in the NFL his rookie year and everyone label him a bust. He progressively got better and now is one of the best LT in the NFL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: It’s going to depend how he progresses in the offseason . If there’s no growth then I’ll be worried Kolton Miller was one of the worst tackles in the NFL his rookie year and everyone label him a bust. He progressively got better and now is one of the best LT in the NFL I get the point but I’m pretty sure Miller was pretty decent initially then struggled whilst playing with injury and most reasonable posters noted that. Miller showed flashes of potential whereas with Wilson we’re really struggling to scrape the barrel for the positive plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 13 minutes ago, Darbsk said: I get the point but I’m pretty sure Miller was pretty decent initially then struggled whilst playing with injury and most reasonable posters noted that. Miller showed flashes of potential whereas with Wilson we’re really struggling to scrape the barrel for the positive plays. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/kolton-millers-rookie-season-was-painful/456/?amp=1 He allowed 16 sacks and 65 pressures as a rookie. That’s as bad as you can be as a LT. Were all the sacks on him? Not  sure but it shows that players can have rough rookie years and still become good players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/kolton-millers-rookie-season-was-painful/456/?amp=1 He allowed 16 sacks and 65 pressures as a rookie. That’s as bad as you can be as a LT. Were all the sacks on him? Not  sure but it shows that players can have rough rookie years and still become good players Did you compare the stats when he was healthy and then when he was playing injured? We watched it, he did well when healthy and got exposed when nicked up and struggling with obvious mobility issues. Most reasonable posters here pointed that out at the time I recall. I think that point is even made in that article. Im not doubting he had bad stats but the key difference here is Miller flashed and showed obvious talent pretty much straight away but then was hampered and admittedly had a bad season. There was an obvious reason why he had such a bad season. Wilson unfortunately, we’re really scraping the barrel to find flashes and positives. I agree with the point I think you’re making in that even with a rough rookie year there’s plenty of scope for improvement but the worrisome thing with Wilson for me is lack of flashes of talent and an obvious lack of technical skills. Edited November 27, 2023 by Darbsk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 38 minutes ago, Darbsk said: Did you compare the stats when he was healthy and then when he was playing injured? We watched it, he did well when healthy and got exposed when nicked up and struggling with obvious mobility issues. Most reasonable posters here pointed that out at the time I recall. I think that point is even made in that article. Im not doubting he had bad stats but the key difference here is Miller flashed and showed obvious talent pretty much straight away but then was hampered and admittedly had a bad season. There was an obvious reason why he had such a bad season. Wilson unfortunately, we’re really scraping the barrel to find flashes and positives. I agree with the point I think you’re making in that even with a rough rookie year there’s plenty of scope for improvement but the worrisome thing with Wilson for me is lack of flashes of talent and an obvious lack of technical skills. It helps that Miller started just about every snap in his rookie year (if I remember correctly), so it was easy to pick out good reps. But, the Raiders absolutely had the worst starting tackle duo I have ever seen between him and Parker. Miller was also pretty bad at UCLA. Still, I remember believing Miller would eventually turn it around because he had elite movement skills for his size. Parker did not. I think similarly of Wilson vs. Ferrell. Wilson at least has the raw material to be a difference-maker in the NFL; Ferrell did not. It also took a year for a guy like Rashaan Gary, who I was a big fan of that year, to get his bearings in the NFL. Granted, Gary rotated behind Preston Smith and probably looked better in spurts than Wilson has. But, when the player has rare raw material, he tends to "get it" sooner or later. Wilson isn't as talented as Gary, but he has some rare traits (length, strength, good bend for his size) which makes me think he will be a good player. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisinBran Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 Also didn't Wilson break his foot? I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt this season. I think we got used to Max playing through a broken hand and still making an impact that we expect Wilson to do something. If Wilson doesn't step it up next year I'm going to label him a bust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 8 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: It’s going to depend how he progresses in the offseason . If there’s no growth then I’ll be worried Kolton Miller was one of the worst tackles in the NFL his rookie year and everyone label him a bust. He progressively got better and now is one of the best LT in the NFL Going from god awful as a rookie to pro bowl level almost never happens. Tyree is looking doo doo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLO Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 11 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Obviously, the ROI is poor this year. But it's very early to judge a DL coming off an offseason injury. If he looks like this once 2nd year starts, it's time to be very concerned. On the flip side, nothing in this franchise’s history over the last 20 years  suggests that he’s gonna do anything but look the same next year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 On 11/26/2023 at 10:27 PM, Nodisrespect said: I was holding out hope but one play stood out to me today on the chiefs field goal attempt, he didn't even try. Just stood up. I don't think he understands his expectations, I I just don't see the effort and that's a really bad sign. Yeah he looks extremely lackadaisical sometimes, and the fact that possibly the highest effort guy in the league is on the other side of him in Maxx doesn’t help his case either. I haven’t heard anything about him being a lazy player or anything off the field so I won’t put that on him, its just he seems to play with a lack of urgency. I just expected more because unlike some of the out of the blue WTF picks we have made in the past, this guy seemed to generally be rated highly. Almost every mock i saw had him as a top 10-15 player at the very least. And for him to not have made one notable play this year is just insane. Even his one sack on the year was pathetic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 He was highly rated but a project. Probably 3 years and he'll turn it on his 4th season but we won't have 5th year'd him so...With today's NFL it's stupid to take any projects in the 1st round unless it's a QB. It takes time to get up to NFL speed but a slow get off, injury and not a lot of production from a smaller program was all known BEFORE we drafted him. He was taken in the right areas of the draft but we are not the Eagles who draft and develop the lines. Chandler having issues wasn't expected and he and Maxx we're great for Wilson to develop behind but...IT happens and hopefully we will have some ADULTS in the room making decisions going forward. Gruden's EGO, Mayock's desire to please him, McDaniels my way or MY WAY, and his college chum Zeig's I mean COME ON MAN. It's why I wouldn't have a problem with Champ and AP. AP would work hard for this opportunity and appreciate what he's got before him. AN NFL team! We keep talking about changing the culture but we've had EGO's leading the way. I'd love Harbs and hope third time is the charm but his EGO is Gruden and McDaniels combined...lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 5 hours ago, G said: He was highly rated but a project. Probably 3 years and he'll turn it on his 4th season but we won't have 5th year'd him so...With today's NFL it's stupid to take any projects in the 1st round unless it's a QB. It takes time to get up to NFL speed but a slow get off, injury and not a lot of production from a smaller program was all known BEFORE we drafted him. He was taken in the right areas of the draft but we are not the Eagles who draft and develop the lines. Chandler having issues wasn't expected and he and Maxx we're great for Wilson to develop behind but...IT happens and hopefully we will have some ADULTS in the room making decisions going forward. Gruden's EGO, Mayock's desire to please him, McDaniels my way or MY WAY, and his college chum Zeig's I mean COME ON MAN. It's why I wouldn't have a problem with Champ and AP. AP would work hard for this opportunity and appreciate what he's got before him. AN NFL team! We keep talking about changing the culture but we've had EGO's leading the way. I'd love Harbs and hope third time is the charm but his EGO is Gruden and McDaniels combined...lol Top coaches will coach circles around former HS coach AP though unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisinBran Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 8 hours ago, G said: He was highly rated but a project. Probably 3 years and he'll turn it on his 4th season but we won't have 5th year'd him so...With today's NFL it's stupid to take any projects in the 1st round unless it's a QB. It takes time to get up to NFL speed but a slow get off, injury and not a lot of production from a smaller program was all known BEFORE we drafted him. He was taken in the right areas of the draft but we are not the Eagles who draft and develop the lines. Chandler having issues wasn't expected and he and Maxx we're great for Wilson to develop behind but...IT happens and hopefully we will have some ADULTS in the room making decisions going forward. Gruden's EGO, Mayock's desire to please him, McDaniels my way or MY WAY, and his college chum Zeig's I mean COME ON MAN. It's why I wouldn't have a problem with Champ and AP. AP would work hard for this opportunity and appreciate what he's got before him. AN NFL team! We keep talking about changing the culture but we've had EGO's leading the way. I'd love Harbs and hope third time is the charm but his EGO is Gruden and McDaniels combined...lol Yes watch him develop and make an impact on another team lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 1 minute ago, RaisinBran said: Yes watch him develop and make an impact on another team lol Future XFL DPOY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 On 11/28/2023 at 11:35 AM, NYRaider said: Top coaches will coach circles around former HS coach AP though unfortunately. Meh. That’s what some thought about the goat jmd lol mf got out coached by Jeff Saturday lol.  meanwhile Pierce has only got out coached by the real goat Reid and the real mcd in Miami Who he went toe to toe with in only his 3rd hc game. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Meh. That’s what some thought about the goat jmd lol mf got out coached by Jeff Saturday lol.  meanwhile Pierce has only got out coached by the real goat Reid and the real mcd in Miami Who he went toe to toe with in only his 3rd hc game. This team is probably not going to win another game this season my brotha, AP is not NFL head coaching material, dude is legitimately a HS coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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