2024 NFL Draft

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

 

Same things were said of did Jeff Okuda. The draft is a crapshoot. Corners bust all the time. And can I ask..... who cares? A 10 year CB does what if you have no QB? You don't win Super Bowls because of all-pro CBs. You win them because of QBs. 

Drafting a QB just to draft on is misguided, yes, I agree. Which why I'm not touching Penix at 13.

Not drafting a QB because "is he a superstar" is an obnoxious argument. Because you don't know until you know with any prospect. The "can't miss superstars" are rare and go early.

If you're a GM and you like traits, leadership, etc. He checks all your boxes as a fit for you offense, then you take the swing. It's that simple. Nobody is identifying a can't miss superstar at QB, sorry.... that guys name was Andrew Luck and there hasn't been one like him sense. They all have questions marks. They are all coin flips and it's your teams job to develop them. 

And I do know this. The QBs that make the playoffs consistently and win Super Bowls.... they are usually found in round 1. 

I am all for drafting a QB at 13 if one with superstar potential falls however this team is no where near a complete roster and those who are just throwing around the idea of "just drafting a QB at 13" because we need one is foolish.  This team needs and influx of talent and needs to nail draft picks which we haven't done in 20 years.  If we draft a QB at 13 and he turns out to be below average to average combined with a below average roster that will equate to years of "purgatory" that so many have wanted to get out of. 

A lockdown #1 CB is a premium position and a major need for this team.  No one in their right mind would take a superstar CB over a superstar QB however I would certainly take a stud CB over a QB who busts.  We can start to accumulate young studs at premium positions so when the time is right to draft a QB he does not have tremendous pressure to be the franchise savior with a roster that is devoid of talent.

I get everyone wanting a quick fix by landing a stud QB but in reality that isn't an easy task.  We need to build quality young talent and depth over the next two to three seasons by drafting well and finding value in FA.  If a quality Qb falls to us you certainly make that pick...

 

Edited March 29 by Frankie2Gunz

[Jeremy408]

3 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

What makes Penix a better talent, with a smaller bust rate and superstar QB potential? 

It seems quite evident that fans are desperate for a quick fix with this franchise by just throwing "draft X QB because we need one" out there with zero thought or merit.  Are you saying that Penix will be a superstar Qb and if so what are you basing that on?   I am saying that his bust potential is high and QB evaluations be fans is laughable after watching a few highlight videos. 

I am all ears when it comes to listening as to why a QB will be a superstar.....  What makes Penix a superstar in the NFL? 

1.Arm talent would be one. He's the best pure thrower of the football. Something that's being overlooked by many is the fact that there's not a qb with this type of arm talent that will come out in every draft. For example, I'm pretty sure no one is coming out next year with that kind of arm talent.

2.We found out yesterday that he's fast which means he CAN run. If we're talking speed he's at least as fast as Arnold as both ran a 4.5. That said I'd rather have a thrower than a runner personally. 

3.The production is there at a power 5 school. Over the last 2 years he's thrown 67 TDs & 19 Ints for 9544 yards. Large sample size of success(even after the injury).

4. Good decision maker. He threw 555 balls and completed 363 completions(65.4) the year before year he did nearly identical He threw 554 balls and completed 362 completions(65.3). He's doing this in an offense that requires you to throw the football down the field so his accuracy is not based on easy throws. 

5. In terms of his character, his coach Kalen DeBoer who is now the coach at Bama, said he is the best leader he's ever seen. And if you do the whole "winning is a QB stat" thing(Which I don't), he's only lost 3 games at Washington. 

Those would be my reasons. It's important to note that this is all assuming that we're able to just stay at 13 and draft the guy rather than trading up, which would cause us to give up future assets. That means anything that we don't draft terms of other positions we still have the ability to do so, and build our football team.

Edited March 29 by Jeremy408

[MrOaktown_56]

Really like Ja'Lynn polk if we can get him in the 3rd or later. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

3 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

1.Arm talent would be one. He's the best pure thrower of the football. Something that's being overlooked by many is the fact that there's not a qb with this type of arm talent that will come out in every draft. For example, I'm pretty sure no one is coming out next year with that kind of arm talent.

2.We found out yesterday that he's fast which means he CAN run. If we're talking speed he's at least as fast as Arnold as both ran a 4.5. That said I'd rather have a thrower than a runner personally. 

3.The production is there at a power 5 school. Over the last 2 years he's thrown 67 TDs & 19 Ints for 9544 yards. Large sample size of success(even after the injury).

4. Good decision maker. He threw 555 balls and completed 363 completions(65.4) the year before year he did nearly identical He threw 554 balls and completed 362 completions(65.3). He's doing this in an offense that requires you to throw the football down the field so his accuracy is not based on easy throws. 

5. In terms of his character, his coach Kalen DeBoer who is now the coach at Bama, said he is the best leader he's ever seen. And if you do the whole "winning is a QB stat" thing(Which I don't), he's only lost 3 games at Washington. 

Those would be my reasons. It's important to note that this is all assuming that we're able to just stay at 13 and draft the guy rather than trading up, which would cause us to give up future assets. That means anything that we don't draft terms of other positions we still have the ability to do so, and build our football team.

This is the time of the year where every player projected to go in the 1st "looks good"..  Fans trying to evaluate QB's is laughable considering how much information we are not privy to and that information is critical in determining if a Qb will be a good pro or not. 

I believe of the top 5 QB's three will be three busts, one averageish and one above average with superstar potential.  

Of the top 5 Qb's who do project as busts and do you think there is a superstar in this class? If so who? 

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

This is the time of the year where every player projected to go in the 1st "looks good"..  Fans trying to evaluate QB's is laughable considering how much information we are not privy to and that information is critical in determining if a Qb will be a good pro or not. 

I believe of the top 5 QB's three will be three busts, one averageish and one above average with superstar potential.  

Of the top 5 Qb's who do project as busts and do you think there is a superstar in this class? If so who? 

Corners also have a high bust rate as well 

[Frankie2Gunz]

12 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Corners also have a high bust rate as well 

Not nearly the bust rate of QB's.  There is no sure things in drafting other than MHJ lol but I would venture to say Arnold has a small chance of being a bust and should be the 1st CB off the board. 

[Jeremy408]

22 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Not nearly the bust rate of QB's.  There is no sure things in drafting other than MHJ lol but I would venture to say Arnold has a small chance of being a bust and should be the 1st CB off the board. 

I personally dont think there is a corner that is definitively #1 in this draft. Though I like Arnold personally, Im not sure that he's definitively better than Kool Aid. and then theres the Mitchell guy. 

[raidr4life]

8 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

I personally dont think there is a corner that is definitively #1 in this draft. Though I like Arnold personally, Im not sure that he's definitively better than Kool Aid. and then theres the Mitchell guy. 

Exactly and I'm weary of the guys that suddenly come out of nowhere, while kool-aid was talked about for two years as being the top CB.

[Jeremy408]

22 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Exactly and I'm weary of the guys that suddenly come out of nowhere, while kool-aid was talked about for two years as being the top CB.

a few months ago it was wiggins

[G]

I'd take any of the top 6 QB's because I think they are better than what we had last year. Now with that said I also like Arnold at CB more than any other CB. So I wouldn't be upset but I also have heard Kool-Aid, Wiggins and Mitchell as 'the best' but for me I'd trade down from 13 hoping that other teams valued those 3 CB's more than Arnold. AT 13 I expect some great Tackles there. Might be a RT which would be excellent if we did draft Penix later but I also understand the reason to not wait. It's going to be an interesting draft day seeing what is smoke and what is fire...Also seeing if there are trades and how high or not so high is the actual price once it happens. I always say the 1st round picks should be starters UNLESS it's a QB you're developing. If the draft falls QB at 1-3 let alone -4 then 6 will probably be gone by 13. Trade down then maybe you still get Arnold or a top CB and a top Tackle by trading up with the extra picks gained. 

[MrOaktown_56]

4 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

a few months ago it was wiggins

TBF I think both are different but are awesome players who profile as #1 cornerbacks in the NFL. That's a commodity worth gambling on and elevating this secondary to elite IMHO.

[Styrian Raider]

We literally witnessed a team with a lockdown CB1 without a franchise QB.

Last year they picked at #15 and this year they pick with #10.

Would 't say that the Sauce Gardner Pick lifted the Jets to new heights, but the signing of Aaron Rodgers could've lifted them if he didn't get injured.

Doesn't mean that Penix ist the new Rodgers, but it does show that a QB is just more worth taking the risk than a so called "lockdown CB1".

[reddevil]

10 minutes ago, Styrian Raider said:

We literally witnessed a team with a lockdown CB1 without a franchise QB.

Last year they picked at #15 and this year they pick with #10.

Would 't say that the Sauce Gardner Pick lifted the Jets to new heights, but the signing of Aaron Rodgers could've lifted them if he didn't get injured.

Doesn't mean that Penix ist the new Rodgers, but it does show that a QB is just more worth taking the risk than a so called "lockdown CB1".

Plus, whilst a ‘lockdown’, no.1 CB is of course desirable, I’m not sure it is absolutely necessary. And I would argue even less so on our current defense. 

We have the dline, solid LBs and a reliable pair of safeties. I think that Hobbs and Jones give us a pair of playmakers and they, along with Bennett would benefit just as much, if not more from a vet presence as much as a highly picked rookie. 

I won’t complain too much if they do get Mitchell or Arnold as they look like top prospects, but I wouldn’t now have it as as high a priority…

[raidersedge]

Raiders are in a weird spot. The roster is not bad at all, I don't care what causal fans say or the media. Dare I say, its close to a playoff roster. They have good to great players at some of the most important positions. Going into the season without a long term plan a QB again just continues to set us back. Too many fans are obsessed with having the perfect team, it doesn't work like that. Its impossible to have everything. The goal is to get a rookie QB who is good enough to build around and make a run while he's on that rookie deal. If they can't move up for any of the top QBs. I personally have no issues with taking Penix or Nix and see what happens.

If they take a OT or CB at 13 I get it but the second we do that we risk going into the season with O'Connell and Minschew and most likely that's a 7 to 9 win season max. I rather just do this with a rookie QB with a higher ceiling.

[big_palooka]

15 hours ago, reddevil said:

With this logic - are you sure you would risk picking a Fuaga or other position at 13 in the hope you can move back into the first for Nix? Everything would have to fall exactly right for that scenario to unfold.  

I’ve been round and round with this all off season and it’s why I am pretty firmly in favour of picking whichever of the QBs is there at 13. Be that Nix or Penix. 

It seems like a fairly unique draft with the quantity of first round(ish) graded QBs. It is rare that the 5th or 6th rated player in the position has the potential that these guys do imo.

They seem like significantly better prospects  than the Malik Willis, Hendon Hooker, Jake Haener’s of the world where you had to close your eyes tight to see any potential. These guys are more on par with Rattler and Pratt etc. arguably the 4th tier guys - not the 2nd tier in other drafts…

Plus, a rookie QB would be going into a pretty decent situation with the QB room taking the pressure off and some high quality weapons. Just feels like an ideal time to take a punt..

I'd either trade down from 13 or up from 44 for Nix. I think he's a late 1, early 2. And that's after I see what Denver does. 

But, if Telesco took Nix at 13, I wouldn't hate it. He has the leadership, intelligence and skills to justify the pick. And I think of all the QBs, Nix is the guy who can start day 1. He had 5 different offenses in college. He picks things up quick and executes them well.