The 2024 Draft. Tonight's the night...

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Dude you are full of it.  Have you watched games on TV before?  In no way do you get the same angles as you get from a throwing session at the combine with multiple angles and behind the passer views or infront of the passer views.  Sure would be great to watch guys live in person, yeah cannot exactly do that.  Games on TV you get sideline views almost all the time.  Sure they replay different angles sometimes, but live action much less compared to their draft peers on the next play....yeah it is great for the QB position and in that throwing session to see guys right after another.  It is not everything, nothing is, but it absolutely is part of the puzzle and does matter.

If you really think that watching them throw in shorts without defenders is the best way to evaluate a players' ability to throw a ball, this discussion isn't going anywhere.

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

And when in the hell did I discuss Dion Jordan?  This is QB play and throwing the football, it had nothing to do with Josh Allen's 40 time last time I checked, 4.75 from him was discussed when exactly?  Dion Jordan?  Ummmm talk about irrelevant information.  Maybe instead of talking about Dion Jordan, go actually watch McCarthy miss WRs who are not covered in that passing session, was nothing amazing that is for sure and did not impress especially going short to his left or going deep.  

It's logic like what you just proposed that got Dion Jordan to be a top 3 pick.  Someone (i.e. the Dolphins) got wowed by what he did in gym shorts that got him drafted 3rd overall.  You go watch that tape, and you saw an athletic pass rusher who was short on production but high on potential.  That 2013 draft was miserable enough that the second best pass rusher to come out of that class was Alex Okafor.  And he was a miserable athlete.  You're getting entranced with athletic tools, and completely ignoring the on-field aspect.

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, PrplChilPill said:

Then why have a combine? Seems like the NFL is just wasting time if they get nothing out of it. 

Before I answer your question, let me propose one of my own.  Why have so many players either not participate at all or only participate in select drills?

To answer your question, the Combine is valuable.  To an extent.  It levels the playing field for everyone.  Everyone knows that you "play faster" on turf than you do natural grass, so if you've got a player who predominantly plays on a natural grass field, they may appear slower than that of a player who plays fast on turf.  That's why those Combine numbers shouldn't come as a surprise.  I mean, is anyone really surprised Keon Coleman didn't run a sub-4.5 forty?  Or that T'Vondre Sweat weighed in at 366 pounds?  It's nice to have a level playing field, but the only real value that you get out of the Combine is the medical and the interview portions.  But going back to the Combine numbers, how many times have you seen a Combine numbers and say "that doesn't match what I saw on tape"?  We all knew Xavier Worthy was one of the fastest guys in the draft.  The Combine shouldn't change your opinion on a player.

[vike daddy]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

this discussion isn't going anywhere.

i totally agree with this statement.

and seeing that's its getting edgy and no one is going to change the other's mind, maybe it's best to leave it at that and not go another round. thanks.

[Ozzy]

On 3/10/2024 at 10:42 AM, BowserBroncos said:

His injury history and bad stats when pressured still exists. Being medical cleared at combine means nothing more than that he is currently healthy.

I'll be more surprised if he get into the top 50 than if he falls to the 3rd like Ridder and Willis did in 2022.

@BowserBroncos

Say what you want to about Penix and his injury history, with Cousins out of Minnesota, that 11 and 12 pick are going to be QBs unless something changes with a veteran free agent signing.  

 

My guess is Penix then Nix and both go ahead of McCarthy possibly because both have to start right away.  Sure either one could go with McCarthy but could be some more learning pains with him as the selection and he could struggle rookie year.

 

With the weapons Minnesota has in Jefferson and Hockenson, I would think Penix Jr is the play because of his ability to pass the football and make plays that way.  Not sure McCarthy could deliver the rock as accurately and Penix does not really fit Payton's offense so Nix could be the play there, will be interesting what happens but Cousins out is a big piece and basically puts Minnesota in the must draft a QB spot.  

[wcblack34]

If you are selecting your quarterback based on whether or not, he has to play right away, and not on who is going to be the better long-term player, you are doing it wrong.

McCarthy will be selected before Penix and Nix. 

[solidvikingfan]

2 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

@BowserBroncos

Say what you want to about Penix and his injury history, with Cousins out of Minnesota, that 11 and 12 pick are going to be QBs unless something changes with a veteran free agent signing.  

 

My guess is Penix then Nix and both go ahead of McCarthy possibly because both have to start right away.  Sure either one could go with McCarthy but could be some more learning pains with him as the selection and he could struggle rookie year.

 

With the weapons Minnesota has in Jefferson and Hockenson, I would think Penix Jr is the play because of his ability to pass the football and make plays that way.  Not sure McCarthy could deliver the rock as accurately and Penix does not really fit Payton's offense so Nix could be the play there, will be interesting what happens but Cousins out is a big piece and basically puts Minnesota in the must draft a QB spot.  

If the Vikings were just going to take a QB because at their spot Will Levis would have been drafted last year.

Don't know where you would've ranked Levis compared to McCarthy, Penix, or Nix but if they don't see these guys as first round talents there not going to take them at 11 just because that is our pick.

[SemperFeist]

26 minutes ago, wcblack34 said:

If you are selecting your quarterback based on whether or not, he has to play right away, and not on who is going to be the better long-term player, you are doing it wrong.

McCarthy will be selected before Penix and Nix. 

💯 

[Ozzy]

39 minutes ago, wcblack34 said:

If you are selecting your quarterback based on whether or not, he has to play right away, and not on who is going to be the better long-term player, you are doing it wrong.

McCarthy will be selected before Penix and Nix. 

Think what you want, personally not sure I would be totally good to go selecting McCarthy 11th overall.  He is not ready to start so they would need to get a veteran to play ahead of him for a year or two.  

Funny how many think Penix Jr and Nix are just some garbage pile and JJ McCarthy is this Joe Montana or something just because he was on a winning team.  By the way one of the most stacked college football teams in the history of college football with the COVID years and transfer portal players, correct me if I am wrong but was it not a record to have 18 players from one school at the combine?  It was. 

Sure would be interesting with McCarthy but again go watch the dude throw, it is nothing out of this world at all.  And currently Vikings need a starter now, not a starter in 2-3 years from now.  Would the Lions, Bears or Packers be afraid of facing JJ McCarthy, I doubt it.  At least with Penix Jr and Nix they are far more experienced, far more passer ready and know offenses more I would say based on their ability to throw with anticipation, JJ sometimes can do that but sometimes cannot.  

 

 

At least they are moving on from Kirk Cousins where if they paid millions to bring him back they would have just got the same results arguably.  At least they are trying something else to actually win long term, so any young QB to build around is a step in the right direction.  But the play of sitting McCarthy, that is going to be hard to pull off but maybe they can make a move to allow that to happen.  

 

37 minutes ago, solidvikingfan said:

If the Vikings were just going to take a QB because at their spot Will Levis would have been drafted last year.

Don't know where you would've ranked Levis compared to McCarthy, Penix, or Nix but if they don't see these guys as first round talents there not going to take them at 11 just because that is our pick.

All three are better than Will Levis I would say.  By the way Will Levis had similar limitations as a passer in college, both he and McCarthy never threw for over 500 or even 400 attempts in college during one season, Levis did pass 353 times one year, McCarthy never even did that.  And both are not natural passers either, both athletic guys who are good outside of the pocket but Levis is stronger than McCarthy, a more physical runner and has a stronger arm.  McCarthy is a better leader, more charismatic and better throwing on the move.  

But I would take any of the three over Levis.

[BowserBroncos]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

My guess is Penix then Nix and both go ahead of McCarthy possibly because both have to start right away. 

Hopefully Denver picks McCarthy at 12 them.

I'd be pissed if they pick Penix or Nix at 12.

[BowserBroncos]

1 hour ago, solidvikingfan said:

Don't know where you would've ranked Levis compared to McCarthy, Penix, or Nix but if they don't see these guys as first round talents there not going to take them at 11 just because that is our pick.

McCarthy

Levis

Nix

Penix

 

And if you want to add the 25 class...its Beck over Nix and Sanders over Penix.

[Ozzy]

Just now, BowserBroncos said:

Hopefully Denver picks McCarthy at 12 them.

I'd be pissed if they pick Penix or Nix at 12.

You honestly think he would be better at QB than Russell Wilson?  That would be very surprising if he can be an instant starter and succeed greatly in a Sean Payton offense.  Also my guess is Russell Wilson starts on the Steelers and does well, better than McCarthy is going to do if he starts instantly on Denver, and Denver is paying what $39 mil on Wilson's contract and Steelers pay $1 mil for this up coming year.  Sorry but that dude is not that awful at QB...

 

Will be interesting how it all goes down.

[BowserBroncos]

3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You honestly think he would be better at QB than Russell Wilson?  That would be very surprising if he can be an instant starter and succeed greatly in a Sean Payton offense.  Also my guess is Russell Wilson starts on the Steelers and does well, better than McCarthy is going to do if he starts instantly on Denver, and Denver is paying what $39 mil on Wilson's contract and Steelers pay $1 mil for this up coming year.  Sorry but that dude is not that awful at QB...

 

Will be interesting how it all goes down.

Yes.

McCarthy is perfect for Payton's system and I'm not worried at all with his arm. Penix would never fit Payton's system (basically the same problem Wilson had) and arm strength is not the only thing that matters is this league.

I get that you like Penix, but for me J.J. is the most ready QB in this class after playing 3 years in a pro style offense with Harbaugh.

I'm very, very afraid that Penix is just an arm and if Denver picks a guy with his injury history at 12 being protected by Mike McGlinchey...it's a death sentence.

I'll be more than happy to let the Vikings have Penix at 11 and we pick McCarthy at 12 if would make you happy.

Still don't see Penix going nowhere near the 1st round tho. Not only for my preferences, but for everything that's being reported since this draft process has started. I'll give you that in case J.J. is gone I can see Payton reaching on Nix (don't know if at 12, hopefully not), but I'd be less suprised if Spencer Rattler has more chances of being the next QB for the Broncos than Penix.

[Vikes22]

34 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Think what you want, personally not sure I would be totally good to go selecting McCarthy 11th overall.  He is not ready to start so they would need to get a veteran to play ahead of him for a year or two.  

Funny how many think Penix Jr and Nix are just some garbage pile and JJ McCarthy is this Joe Montana or something just because he was on a winning team.  By the way one of the most stacked college football teams in the history of college football with the COVID years and transfer portal players, correct me if I am wrong but was it not a record to have 18 players from one school at the combine?  It was. 

Sure would be interesting with McCarthy but again go watch the dude throw, it is nothing out of this world at all.  And currently Vikings need a starter now, not a starter in 2-3 years from now.  Would the Lions, Bears or Packers be afraid of facing JJ McCarthy, I doubt it.  At least with Penix Jr and Nix they are far more experienced, far more passer ready and know offenses more I would say based on their ability to throw with anticipation, JJ sometimes can do that but sometimes cannot.  

 

 

At least they are moving on from Kirk Cousins where if they paid millions to bring him back they would have just got the same results arguably.  At least they are trying something else to actually win long term, so any young QB to build around is a step in the right direction.  But the play of sitting McCarthy, that is going to be hard to pull off but maybe they can make a move to allow that to happen.  

 

All three are better than Will Levis I would say.  By the way Will Levis had similar limitations as a passer in college, both he and McCarthy never threw for over 500 or even 400 attempts in college during one season, Levis did pass 353 times one year, McCarthy never even did that.  And both are not natural passers either, both athletic guys who are good outside of the pocket but Levis is stronger than McCarthy, a more physical runner and has a stronger arm.  McCarthy is a better leader, more charismatic and better throwing on the move.  

But I would take any of the three over Levis.

Again, everyone has their own opinion. You like Penix. We get it. You give your grades on QB’s based on the combine. I give mine on winning games on the field. All McCarthy does is win. I’ll take it. 

[PrplChilPill]

8 minutes ago, Vikes22 said:

Again, everyone has their own opinion. You like Penix. We get it. You give your grades on QB’s based on the combine. I give mine on winning games on the field. All McCarthy does is win. I’ll take it. 

McCarthy hasn't won squat. That was the running game all the way. Last year's top pick won all the time in college too... It's like, I don't know, a team game. ....

[Ozzy]

16 minutes ago, Vikes22 said:

Again, everyone has their own opinion. You like Penix. We get it. You give your grades on QB’s based on the combine. I give mine on winning games on the field. All McCarthy does is win. I’ll take it. 

Give grades on combines?  Dude nice straw man created by someone else saying things that are not true to make his argument against me.  

 

All McCarthy does is play on one of the most loaded teams in college football history.  It is an NFL record to have 18 players at one combine from one team, guess who that team is?  The team was stacked and you put JJ McCarthy on a less talented roster he would struggle and even did struggle at times on that stacked roster.  The NFL is becoming more like college football than the other way around, and you put JJ McCarthy on a team with a so so OL, lacking run game and a so so defense he is going to struggle.  You put him on a team like the 49ers, yeah he would do fine because it is the 49ers and a 7th round pick at QB does just fine also, but if he is not supported with super stars all around him he will have issues because throwing the ball does not come naturally to him and he is not very accurate in doing so.

 

Instead of cocking off, you go ahead and follow the draft for well over 26 years, every year, oh and by the way actually watch JJ McCarthy throw instead of just taking something someone else said as your own opinion.  

 

23 minutes ago, BowserBroncos said:

Yes.

McCarthy is perfect for Payton's system and I'm not worried at all with his arm. Penix would never fit Payton's system (basically the same problem Wilson had) and arm strength is not the only thing that matters is this league.

I get that you like Penix, but for me J.J. is the most ready QB in this class after playing 3 years in a pro style offense with Harbaugh.

I'm very, very afraid that Penix is just an arm and if Denver picks a guy with his injury history at 12 being protected by Mike McGlinchey...it's a death sentence.

I'll be more than happy to let the Vikings have Penix at 11 and we pick McCarthy at 12 if would make you happy.

Still don't see Penix going nowhere near the 1st round tho. Not only for my preferences, but for everything that's being reported since this draft process has started. I'll give you that in case J.J. is gone I can see Payton reaching on Nix (don't know if at 12, hopefully not), but I'd be less suprised if Spencer Rattler has more chances of being the next QB for the Broncos than Penix.

If I was a betting person I would bet Michael Penix Jr is going to be a 1st round pick.  JJ McCarthy is not perfect for Payton's system because JJ McCarthy is not accurate in tight window short throws.  To pretend he is Drew Brees, he is not Drew Brees what so ever, oh and he does not have that great of arm strength or arm talent either by the way.  Sure arm strength is not everything but Drew Brees who owned Sean Payton's system and basically created Sean Payton because of the success he had, that dude could spin it and had a great throwing arm especially at the time.

JJ McCarthy is not that, but you want him at 12 go ahead, be prepared to have far less success than Russell Wilson had with Denver last year.