Running Back Committee, or Will There Be a Standout?

[VikeManDan]

4 minutes ago, Captain Relax said:

In some ways, finding a starting running back is probably as crucial, if not more so, then finding the QBOTF. 

Strong disagree, nothing is more crucial than finding a QBotF.

[Captain Relax]

2 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

Strong disagree, nothing is more crucial than finding a QBotF.

If Kirk comes back on a 2 year extension, I would use our first on QBOTF, and then use the next pick on RB.  I don't know about relying on lower round or UFA backs.  It hasn't served us well.

[SteelKing728]

31 minutes ago, Captain Relax said:

If Kirk comes back on a 2 year extension, I would use our first on QBOTF, and then use the next pick on RB.  I don't know about relying on lower round or UFA backs.  It hasn't served us well.

Yeah we've done well with late round/UDFA/no name receivers in our history (Diggs, Thielen, Wright, Charles Johnson, Powell), but the RB position has been not as fortunate.

Runningback might be our 2nd greatest need on this team.

[swede700]

I can't go that far.  I'm not sure you could put Derrick Henry on this team and he'd be much more effective than they are.  This offensive line isn't really built to run-block any longer.  I think it's both the RB and the OL's fault...which ultimately, to me, means that it's Curtis Modkins' fault, since he's the RB/run game coordinator.  He's failed at the job. 

[Captain Relax]

3 hours ago, swede700 said:

I can't go that far.  I'm not sure you could put Derrick Henry on this team and he'd be much more effective than they are.  This offensive line isn't really built to run-block any longer.  I think it's both the RB and the OL's fault...which ultimately, to me, means that it's Curtis Modkins' fault, since he's the RB/run game coordinator.  He's failed at the job. 

I think Derrick Henry would do better than any RB we have on the roster.  

I agree that run blocking is not great, however, Mattison can't seem to adjust when openings are there. He keeps running into the back of his linemen.  Part of me thinks that O'Connell just is not interested in establishing a running game,  but I always give him the benefit of the doubt.  Regardless, an effective running game keeps the opponents defense off the field.  As great as the comeback win was yesterday, there's no denying that the defense was gassed.

[JDBrocks]

5 hours ago, swede700 said:

I can't go that far.  I'm not sure you could put Derrick Henry on this team and he'd be much more effective than they are.  This offensive line isn't really built to run-block any longer.  I think it's both the RB and the OL's fault...which ultimately, to me, means that it's Curtis Modkins' fault, since he's the RB/run game coordinator.  He's failed at the job. 

I very much disagree with this. The RBs have had clear lanes into the 2nd level and just plain miss them. They run in to the backs of blockers.

The OL is doing a fine job. The RBs have no juice.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by JDBrocks

[Cearbhall]

19 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

I very much disagree with this. The RBs have had clear lanes into the 2nd level and just plain miss them. The run in to the backs of blockers.

The OL is doing a fine job. The RBs have no juice.

 

I am with him ⬆

Sure, the OL could do better, but they are doing good enough.  Some of the unsuccessful runs can be blamed on the line, but from what I have seen most of them should be blamed on the RBs.  Mostly, Mattison, but that might only be true because he is the one that has the most carries.

Like Mr. @JDBrocks, I have seen several times where RBs have gotten way less out of the play than what the blocking alone should have been good for. 

A good RB would get more yards than the play is blocked; a decent RB gets what is there. Mattison, IMO, hasn't been decent carrying the ball this year.  He did great catching the ball yesterday. I'll give him that.

[vike daddy]

The Vikings will need a new running back. The franchise will likely promote from within, at least initially, nominating second-year tailback Ty Chandler for RB2 duty while perhaps giving rookie and practice squad runner DeWayne McBride a look. Kick returner Kene Nwangwu is a possibility, as well. All three have encountered limited or zero regular season action as running backs this season, but that is likely to change soon — really soon.

Meanwhile, if McBride is not deemed promotable, a handful of free-agent solutions exist, too. Here’s a small list of experienced veterans:

• Giovani Bernard
• Rex Burkhead
• Ronald Jones
• J.D. McKissic

The NFL’s trade deadline expired six days ago, so Minnesota must use the current roster for reinforcements or sign a Bernard, Burkhead, Jones, or McKissic. Fans have envisioned a larger offensive role for Nwangwu for three seasons, and perhaps that plan could finally materialize.

Minnesota also employed RBs Abram Smith and Aaron Dykes before final roster trimdowns in August, who could be options instead of the veterans mentioned above.

https://vikingsterritory.com/2023/news/top_news/will-need-a-new?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

[SkolMasterMN]

19 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

I very much disagree with this. The RBs have had clear lanes into the 2nd level and just plain miss them. They run in to the backs of blockers.

The OL is doing a fine job. The RBs have no juice.

 

I agree with this quite heavily. Mattison has had more than enough chances to prove himself as a RB1 and he has failed to do so. It hurts to continue to watch him be out there for as much as he is. I hope he starts to prove me wrong.

[swede700]

19 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

I very much disagree with this. The RBs have had clear lanes into the 2nd level and just plain miss them. They run in to the backs of blockers.

The OL is doing a fine job. The RBs have no juice.

 

I don't disagree that the RBs are significantly the primary problem...and by a large margin.  But, the offensive line can't be let off the hook as just doing a fine job when there are draws or dives and the RB (Akers included) is getting hit in the backfield, such as happened in the first half of the Atlanta game. Sure, on the sweeps and counters, the RBs had poor vision and didn't cut back when they should have or kept going to the outside. They are probably 85% of the problem...but the OL could have done better on the inside running plays.  When they are getting blasted before even barely taking a step, that can't be on the RB.    

[JDBrocks]

Just now, swede700 said:

I don't disagree that the RBs are significantly the primary problem...and by a large margin.  But, the offensive line can't be let off the hook as just doing a fine job when there are draws or dives and the RB (Akers included) is getting hit in the backfield, such as happened in the first half of the Atlanta game. Sure, on the sweeps and counters, the RBs had poor vision and didn't cut back when they should have or kept going to the outside. They are probably 85% of the problem...but the OL could have done better on the inside running plays.  When they are getting blasted before even barely taking a step, that can't be on the RB.    

If the running backs are 85% of the problem, then why wouldn't Derrick Henry be much more effective? Sure, everyone can improve, but that's not what you said.

[swede700]

2 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

If the running backs are 85% of the problem, then why wouldn't Derrick Henry be much more effective? Sure, everyone can improve, but that's not what you said.

I know earlier in his career, he ran in a lot of outside zone...and he still runs a lot of zone (don't know if it's inside or outside), but I view him mainly as most effective inside the tackles because of his size.  That's where our offensive line has issues, inside the box, on traps, draws and dives.  They rank as 4th worst in the NFL in stuffed running plays at 22% of their running plays hit at or behind the line of scrimmage.  Only the Cardinals, Jets and Browns are worse (I don't know how the Browns have been impacted by the loss of Chubb), while Tennessee is the 2nd best (at only 11%).   

The Vikings are 25th in the NFL in Open Field yards and 17th in Adjusted Line Yards...which, according to their definition,  means that the team's rushing attack relies more heavily on its offensive line to make the attack work.  They are also terrible at Power Success, which is the percentage of runs on 3rd or 4th and less than 2 yds, ranking 25th in the league as well.  The one bright spot in their rushing attack is that they rank 6th in Second Level, which is the percentage of runs between 5 and 10 yds.

I believe ultimately this is evidence that the offensive line plays a significant role in the team's rushing success.  Whether it's 15%, 30%, or 45% isn't really the point I ever intended to make and is just a distraction from it.  It was that the offensive line can't be excused from the rushing attack's failure. 

[JDBrocks]

I agree that a lot of the rushing scheme leaves something to be desired, but the stats that you just shared sort of point to the RBs being bad. They've played a lot of good run defenses in the first half (TB, PHI, ATL, GB, CHI, SD).

Usually when they have good second level runs, it's because a back saw the lane. Once Mattison gets up to speed he's good to fall forward and get positive chunks. Same with Akers. They are just slow to see the lanes open up, and hesitant to make difficult cuts - opting to follow the blocking.

I don't think they are excused, but when multiple outlets using their own metrics (PFF, ESPN Win Rate, etc) all rank the Vikings run blocking highly, the scrutiny has to fall on the RBs first. It just felt like you were looking for a reason to discredit the line when the backs are far and away the most deserving of blame. You're statement of "not built to run block anymore" flies in the face of the tape and professional analysis.

[swede700]

Fair enough...I'll just leave it there and see where it goes from here.  I certainly think the RBs haven't done any favors, but I'm not fully ready to commend the offensive line overall for their run-blocking because we've seen a pretty bad rushing attack for almost 2 years now.

[swede700]

They can bring him back...