Who will win the AFC North in 2023?

[MWil23]

9 hours ago, jebrick said:

Since it was founded in 2002, no team has won the division 3 times in a row.  I think it is the Brown's turn.  I am just hoping the Steelers are not in last place.

The Browns haven’t won a division since the 80s. Hard pass for me.

[BetterCallSaul]

11 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

1.) What is so impressive about the Browns roster? 

2.) I feel like we hear this every year.

QB: We will see. (Watson)

RB: Elite. (Chubb)

WR: Good at least. (Cooper/DPJ/Moore/Tillman)

TE: Very good. (Njoku/Akins/Bryant)

OL: Elite. (Wills/Bitonio/Pocic/Teller/Conklin)

DE: Great. (Garrett/Smith/Okonkwo)

DT: Average. (Tomlinson/Ika/Hurst)

LB: Slightly Below Avg. (Takitaki/Walker/JOK)

CB: Elite. (Ward/Emerson/Newsome)

FS: Good. (Thornhill)

SS: Slightly above average. (Delpit)

 

There are no holes on the roster if Watson plays like he can. Big if, but we will see. I think our linebackers are bad, but I love JOK and think he will become an elite player. That is our weakness at the moment, but I think the starters, if healthy, are pretty average. With JOK being the wildcard to be great if they use him NOT as an inside linebacker, like that asshat Joe Woods did.

 

It’s a deep and depth-filled roster now. If this teak fails, it’s because Watson sucks or injuries. Both are possible, but it certainly isn’t the quality of talent surrounding the QB. 

[Daniel]

I think it's between the Ravens and Bengals.  The Ravens have been pretty heavily injured these last couple seasons, so if they can stay healthy, they've still got a very strong roster.  Especially if those project pass rushers they've drafted early the last few years start actually paying off.  Plus, they have a sneaky elite TE room, even if they're lacking at receiver, which is gonna be their biggest weakness.

Bengals have the division's best QB, and that, by itself, makes them hard to overcome.  Their offensive line is still a little questionable, but they have the pieces if they come together.

I'll believe in the Browns when I see Watson play at an elite level again, and not before.

Steelers are still figuring things out imo.

[Ray Reed]

16 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Ravens win division and SB tbh

‘Vens**

[SmittyBacall]

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

but I’d put their overall roster up there against about anyone

That's different than definitively saying the Browns have the best roster in the division (even sans QB). I don't believe that to be true at all.

1 hour ago, BetterCallSaul said:

It’s a deep and depth-filled roster now. If this teak fails, it’s because Watson sucks or injuries. Both are possible, but it certainly isn’t the quality of talent surrounding the QB. 

Again, noticeably better than the Bengals or Ravens roster? I just don't see it. Pittsburgh has holes too, but they still field a strong team. And I really don't like the "on paper" argument - it's completely meaningless. What matters is production. The weakest side of the ball for any team in the AFCN likely remains Cleveland's defense. Joe Woods' impact has been well-documented, but let's see how the coaching change plays out first before we start crowning them.

The other component here that's been ignored is coaching, and there's only one HC on the hot seat right now. 

[SmittyBacall]

44 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I think it's between the Ravens and Bengals.  The Ravens have been pretty heavily injured these last couple seasons, so if they can stay healthy, they've still got a very strong roster.

I really think it's a two horse race until proven otherwise. Baltimore easily poses the biggest threat to Cincinnati in the division. They were formidable last year and, as you said, are only going to get healthier and gain Lamar Jackson back.

45 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Their offensive line is still a little questionable, but they have the pieces if they come together.

That remains to be seen. The addition of Orlando Brown raises the floor of this unit to a level we've yet to see in Burrow's career. Assuming Jonah Williams, who is now embracing the challenge of moving to RT, plays some average ball we are in good shape and could easily be a top 15 unit. Not to mention for the first time in forever we actually have some competent depth in La'El Collins, Max Scharping, and dare I say, Jackson Carman - all three have played a lot of snaps. 

Assuming everyone remains healthy, we may finally for the first time see Burrow operate consistently within a clean pocket. And if that happens we'll be looking at an MVP-type season.

[MWil23]

9 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

The weakest side of the ball for any team in the AFCN likely remains Cleveland's defense

Saying that with a straight face with a Kenny Pickett led Steelers offense coached by Matt Canada is nothing short of hilarious 

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, SmittyBacall said:

I really think it's a two horse race until proven otherwise. Baltimore easily poses the biggest threat to Cincinnati in the division. They were formidable last year and, as you said, are only going to get healthier and gain Lamar Jackson back.

That remains to be seen. The addition of Orlando Brown raises the floor of this unit to a level we've yet to see in Burrow's career. Assuming Jonah Williams, who is now embracing the challenge of moving to RT, plays some average ball we are in good shape and could easily be a top 15 unit. Not to mention for the first time in forever we actually have some competent depth in La'El Collins, Max Scharping, and dare I say, Jackson Carman - all three have played a lot of snaps. 

Assuming everyone remains healthy, we may finally for the first time see Burrow operate consistently within a clean pocket. And if that happens we'll be looking at an MVP-type season.

Why are we assuming that Jonah Williams plays average ball? Seriously asking. He has rarely been healthy and when he has been he’s been pretty bad.

[SmittyBacall]

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

Saying that with a straight face with a Kenny Pickett led Steelers offense coached by Matt Canada is nothing short of hilarious 

They still finished 18th in DVOA last year, and Pickett is no longer a rookie. There's as much reason for optimism there as there is for the Cleveland defense.

[SmittyBacall]

2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Why are we assuming that Jonah Williams plays average ball? Seriously asking. He has rarely been healthy and when he has been he’s been pretty bad.

Because he has been an average tackle his whole career aside from a bad year last year in which he was clearly injured.

Per PFF:

2020: 70.1

2021: 77.7

2022: 61.2

And if we're pointing out holes, why does Jedrick Wills get a pass on an "elite unit" when he has clearly been worse than Jonah at LT?

[Ray Reed]

Here’s my thing with the Browns. I feel like i’ve been hearing about how awesome their roster is since like 2019 and it just hasn’t materialized on the field. I’m pretty sure I can find the same claims being made in this thread back after the Clowney signing, drafting Greedy Williams, the John Johnson signing, the OBJ trade, Kareem Hunt, etc.

Feels like they’re in Chargers territory at this point as perpetual “this roster is stacked” offseason darlings

Edited June 14, 2023 by Ray Reed

[DawgX]

2 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Here’s my thing with the Browns. I feel like i’ve been hearing about how awesome their roster is since like 2019 and it just hasn’t materialized on the field. I’m pretty sure I can find the same claims being made in this thread back after the Clowney signing, drafting Greedy Williams, the John Johnson signing, the OBJ trade, Kareem Hunt, etc.

Feels like they’re in Chargers territory at this point as perpetual “this roster is stacked” offseason darlings

I don't think that's true. How many people in the media or on this forum are talking that highly about us? Hell, in the predictions thread, most people have us finishing third or fourth in the division. Which is fine with me, I'd rather stay under the radar.

We're a team with talent but also various question marks. If everything goes according to plan, I could see us winning the division. However, I could also just as easily see us finishing last. Like others have said, most of our success depends on Watson. If Watson returns to form and Jim Schwartz can get our defense to play at just an average level, we should be competing for at least a WC spot.

[DawgX]

54 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

‘Vens**

Waiting for you to make a name change to Ray Vens.

[Ray Reed]

2 minutes ago, DawgX said:

I don't think that's true. How many people in the media or on this forum are talking that highly about us? Hell, in the predictions thread, most people have us finishing third or fourth in the division. Which is fine with me, I'd rather stay under the radar.

We're a team with talent but also various question marks. If everything goes according to plan, I could see us winning the division. However, I could also just as easily see us finishing last. Like others have said, most of our success depends on Watson. If Watson returns to form and Jim Schwartz can get our defense to play at just an average level, we should be competing for at least a WC spot.

This offseason is definitely the least amount of media hype i’ve seen for the Browns in the past few offseasons, that i’ll agree with. But I was more so referring to discussion about the strength of the roster on here. Feels like every offseason I read on here about how the Browns don’t really have any holes, they have one of the strongest rosters in the league, etc. just like i’m seeing in this thread.

I will say though it’s entirely possible I simply notice it more from Browns fans than others because they’re a division rival and naturally pay more attention to those posts 

[Daniel]

I do think Cleveland has the best offensive line in the division.  Best running back and maybe the best Edges as well.  But Deshaun Watson was not inspiring last year, so they're probably third in the division at QB at best, and I don't think that interior DL or those LBs are scaring anyone.  They have some good DBs too.

Bengals are way ahead at QB, WR, and DL, and their DBs are starting to look like they might be something.

Ravens have a better QB, a better coach, a better interior DL, better LBs, and are about equal in the DB department, and not far behind at OL.

Steelers has a better coach, better WRs, a better DL, and isn't far behind with their RBs and OL.

Even in the areas where the Browns are the best in the division, it's not by much.  Ravens and Steelers both have good OLs, and every team in the division is doing pretty well at RB.  The Steelers may have a better Edge situation than the Browns aleready, and the Bengals are definitely the deepest group.  Like, what advantage does Cleveland even definitively have over the other teams?