TheKillerNacho Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 The only other team I could honestly see winning it aside from the Bengals is Baltimore, barring something totally unexpected. A soft schedule should keep Cleveland in play for the postseason, but they're a step behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: Saying that with a straight face with a Kenny Pickett led Steelers offense coached by Matt Canada is nothing short of hilarious I just about had to read that twice to make sure I read it correctly. 1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said: They still finished 18th in DVOA last year, and Pickett is no longer a rookie. There's as much reason for optimism there as there is for the Cleveland defense. That's great! He still sucks...until he proves he doesn't. And the OC is still Matt Canada. Pittsburgh has a ton of holes on offense and a QB who hasn't shown to be even average. 3 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said: QB: We will see. (Watson) RB: Elite. (Chubb) WR: Good at least. (Cooper/DPJ/Moore/Tillman) TE: Very good. (Njoku/Akins/Bryant) OL: Elite. (Wills/Bitonio/Pocic/Teller/Conklin) DE: Great. (Garrett/Smith/Okonkwo) DT: Average. (Tomlinson/Ika/Hurst) LB: Slightly Below Avg. (Takitaki/Walker/JOK) CB: Elite. (Ward/Emerson/Newsome) FS: Good. (Thornhill) SS: Slightly above average. (Delpit) There are no holes on the roster if Watson plays like he can. Big if, but we will see. I think our linebackers are bad, but I love JOK and think he will become an elite player. That is our weakness at the moment, but I think the starters, if healthy, are pretty average. With JOK being the wildcard to be great if they use him NOT as an inside linebacker, like that asshat Joe Woods did. It’s a deep and depth-filled roster now. If this teak fails, it’s because Watson sucks or injuries. Both are possible, but it certainly isn’t the quality of talent surrounding the QB. The bolded is the biggest weakness. One DE doesn't make a great front 7, and counting on Za'Darius Smith to be anything with his injury history is a really tall gamble. Cleveland's front 7 is a huge concern no matter how great Myles Garrett is at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: The bolded is the biggest weakness. One DE doesn't make a great front 7, and counting on Za'Darius Smith to be anything with his injury history is a really tall gamble. Cleveland's front 7 is a huge concern no matter how great Myles Garrett is at times. I would be shocked if our DE opposite Garrett wasn’t at least league average. Smith is good, but older and injury prone. Okoronkwo is raw, but had a breakout year last season. He was unquestionably “good” in Houston with the arrow going up. We also have a pair of mid round 22 year old DE’s in Alex Wright & Isaiah McGuire. I am beyond confident at least one of those guys will be good, simply having to defeat 1-1 blocks opposite Myles. The DT position is more worrisome, but Tomlinson is a dude and Hurst, when healthy, is a great 3T. His health is supremely important for the group, no doubt, because we don’t have another proven, or even promising, 3T. A lot of ppl liked Winfrey coming out, but he was pretty awful last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 14 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said: I would be shocked if our DE opposite Garrett wasn’t at least league average. Smith is good, but older and injury prone. Okoronkwo is raw, but had a breakout year last season. He was unquestionably “good” in Houston with the arrow going up. We also have a pair of mid round 22 year old DE’s in Alex Wright & Isaiah McGuire. I am beyond confident at least one of those guys will be good, simply having to defeat 1-1 blocks opposite Myles. The DT position is more worrisome, but Tomlinson is a dude and Hurst, when healthy, is a great 3T. His health is supremely important for the group, no doubt, because we don’t have another proven, or even promising, 3T. A lot of ppl liked Winfrey coming out, but he was pretty awful last year. That's a lot of "what ifs" and "this guy has potential". Seems like every year we hear the same thing about Cleveland's defense, particularly their front 7, and every year it's lackluster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 32 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: That's a lot of "what ifs" and "this guy has potential". Seems like every year we hear the same thing about Cleveland's defense, particularly their front 7, and every year it's lackluster. Really? I have hated our front 7 until this year. I see promise for the first time in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Daniel said: I do think Cleveland has the best offensive line in the division. Best running back and maybe the best Edges as well. But Deshaun Watson was not inspiring last year, so they're probably third in the division at QB at best, and I don't think that interior DL or those LBs are scaring anyone. They have some good DBs too. Even in the areas where the Browns are the best in the division, it's not by much. Ravens and Steelers both have good OLs, and every team in the division is doing pretty well at RB. The Steelers may have a better Edge situation than the Browns aleready, and the Bengals are definitely the deepest group. Like, what advantage does Cleveland even definitively have over the other teams? Nick Chubb Edited June 14, 2023 by AkronsWitness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 12 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: Nick Chubb Not even the best RB in the AFCN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: Because he has been an average tackle his whole career aside from a bad year last year in which he was clearly injured. Per PFF: 2020: 70.1 2021: 77.7 2022: 61.2 And if we're pointing out holes, why does Jedrick Wills get a pass on an "elite unit" when he has clearly been worse than Jonah at LT? Oh we are going PFF? That’s cool. And no, Wills has not been great, he’s been average. Jonah gave up double digit sacks last year so saying that is nothing short of ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: That's great! He still sucks...until he proves he doesn't. Fair enough, but he did end the season on a high note though, finishing with the second highest PFF score (90.1) weeks 12 through 18. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) Just now, SmittyBacall said: Fair enough, but he did end the season on a high note though, finishing with the second highest PFF score (90.1) weeks 12 through 18. PFF's grades are garbage I don't think we need to really go through this for the 973rd time on this forum. Unless you'd like me to rant about Roquan Smith finishing as like the 37th best ILB... Edited June 14, 2023 by AFlaccoSeagulls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: That's great! He still sucks...until he proves he doesn't. Fair enough, but he did end the season on a high note though, finishing with the second highest PFF score (90.1) weeks 12 through 18. 7 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Oh we are going PFF? That’s cool. I don’t often like to, but do you have a better tool for OL? 8 minutes ago, MWil23 said: And no, Wills has not been great, he’s been average. Jonah gave up double digit sacks last year so saying that is nothing short of ludicrous. It’s not. If you have time, here’s some light reading: https://atozsports.com/cincinnati/bengals-explaining-the-jonah-williams-dialogue/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 While the AFC-East may have something to say about this, the AFC-North rates to post the most wins in total. This is the tightest division; the first place franchise could be only two games better than the fourth. I would not be surprised to see any of these teams win the AFC-N. Baltimore will convince skeptics once and for all that injuries are not random. Cleveland has developed the second highest rated edgers in the league (well behind Philadelphia). Softest schedule in the AFC-North. Coaching and the passing game remain issues. Cinci had a fine offseason. Their ground game should improve. Their win/loss schedule is softer and their pass protection looks better than 2022. This is the best collection of players in the AFC. Virtually everything is a green light for the Bengals. They won't sneak up on anyone, though. On paper, Pittsburgh is a step behind Cincinnati in almost every category except QB [and WR]. Kenny Pickett (PFF:18th, Fantasy Points Per Game:39th, DYAR:23rd) was half a league behind Joe Burrow (PFF:1st, FPPG:4th, DYAR:6th). (Pickett is no Josh Allen--he was a rookie from a terrible QB crop--but he should improve somewhat.) Nevertheless, I'll take Pittsburgh with its excellent coaching and because they are being grossly underestimated. The QB-WR battery may be pedestrian but Najee Harris and the Tight Ends should lead the offense. And no, I'm not a Steeler stan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 25 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: Nick Chubb Like I said, Cleveland has the best running back in the division, but that’s not really much of an advantage, especially since the other three teams all have good RBs as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 51 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Fair enough, but he did end the season on a high note though, finishing with the second highest PFF score (90.1) weeks 12 through 18. I don’t often like to, but do you have a better tool for OL? It’s not. If you have time, here’s some light reading: https://atozsports.com/cincinnati/bengals-explaining-the-jonah-williams-dialogue/ PFF is an absolute joke at evaluating OL and DVOA is also laughable in my opinion at the context you are using them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 48 minutes ago, Daniel said: Like I said, Cleveland has the best running back in the division, but that’s not really much of an advantage, especially since the other three teams all have good RBs as well. Who is Cincinnati’s running back this year? Because Mixon is and was a JAG at best. Dude barely averaged 4 YPC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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