TheKillerNacho Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 2 hours ago, MWil23 said: Oh we are going PFF? That’s cool. And no, Wills has not been great, he’s been average. Jonah gave up double digit sacks last year so saying that is nothing short of ludicrous. Arguing about who is better between Wills and Jonah Williams is kinda like hitting eachother with pool noodles, eh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: Who is Cincinnati’s running back this year? Because Mixon is and was a JAG at best. Dude barely averaged 4 YPC. Mixon had 1000 yard rushing seasons three of the past four full seasons he's played, and averaged over 4 yards a carry each of those seasons behind what's been a bad offensive line. Common, man. And Chase Brown joined the party as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 Mixon's true value comes with his receiving ability imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: PFF is an absolute joke at evaluating OL What do you use for evaluating OL? 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: DVOA is also laughable in my opinion at the context you are using them in. What context would that be? 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: Who is Cincinnati’s running back this year? Because Mixon is and was a JAG at best. Dude barely averaged 4 YPC. Well it's a good thing we aren't just reliant on handing the ball off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 50 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: Arguing about who is better between Wills and Jonah Williams is kinda like hitting eachother with pool noodles, eh? I’m not arguing that point at all, he brought it up, which is hilarious given that Williams gave up 12 sacks last year and 8 the year before and yet we are willing to call him “average”…Wills has given up 15 in his 3 year career, so yeah, he’s my baseline of an average starter at the OT position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Daniel said: Mixon had 1000 yard rushing seasons three of the past four full seasons he's played, and averaged over 4 yards a carry each of those seasons behind what's been a bad offensive line. Common, man. Last year he was below 900 yards and below 4 YPC. 2021 under 500 yards at under 4 YPC In 2017 he was under 4 YPC. In his 6 year career he’s at 4.1 YPC, hence the “Barely” comment I made and over 1,000 yards 3 times. As for the “bad OL” argument, he faces some of the least stacked boxes in the league as a result of the potent passing game, so I don’t want to hear that. Nick Chubb had arguably the worst OL in football in 2019 with horrendous quarterback play and almost led the league in rushing. I stand by that analysis. Dude is a JAG. 54 minutes ago, Daniel said: And Chase Brown joined the party as well. I like him. He’s also a D3 pick so we will see. Point being, they are fourth in the division at the position. Edited June 14, 2023 by MWil23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Last year he was below 900 yards and below 4 YPC.-3.9, just barely 2021 under 500 yards at under 4 YPC-he only played 6 games that season In 2017 he was under 4 YPC. In his 6 year career he’s at 4.1 YPC, hence the “Barely” comment I made and over 1,000 yards 3 times. As for the “bad OL” argument, he faces some of the least stacked boxes in the league as a result of the potent passing game, so I don’t want to hear that. Nick Chubb had arguably the worst OL in football in 2019 with horrendous quarterback play and almost led the league in rushing. I stand by that analysis. Dude is a JAG. I like him. He’s also a D3 pick so we will see. Point being, they are fourth in the division at the position. You can stand by the analysis all you want. Over 4 ypc, and over 1000 yards is fully sufficient production for a RB1, and as I said, three of the last four full seasons (everyone knows counting a 6 game stretch tells you nothing), he's been significantly over that. And as others pointed out, he brings a lot as a receiver. 441 yards and 2 TDs in 2022, giving him 1255 total yards in not his best season. That would have made him the fourth most productive receiver on the Browns, btw. The Browns have a better RB. No one has said otherwise. But to pretend the gap is huge between them and even the Bengals, who are probably the worst RB room in thewir division, is lying to yourself. And if that's the biggest advantage the team has, it sure doesn't make it look like they're a threat to win the division. Edited June 14, 2023 by Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 19 minutes ago, Daniel said: Last year he was below 900 yards and below 4 YPC.-3.9, just barely Correct, under per my original post 19 minutes ago, Daniel said: 2021 under 500 yards at under 4 YPC-he only played 6 games that season Horrible YPC has nothing to do with games played 20 minutes ago, Daniel said: You can stand by the analysis all you want. Over 4 ypc, and over 1000 yards is fully sufficient production for a RB1, and as I said, three of the last four full seasons (everyone knows counting a 6 game stretch tells you nothing), he's been significantly over that. 4.1 YPC is not “significantly” over at all. 20 minutes ago, Daniel said: And as others pointed out, he brings a lot as a receiver. 441 yards and 2 TDs in 2022, giving him 1255 total yards in not his best season. That would have made him the fourth most productive receiver on the Browns, btw. The Browns are a joke, who cares? That doesn’t make him productive. He was 17th FOR ALL RB in total yards last year. That’s back half of the league…or a JAG. 20 minutes ago, Daniel said: The Browns have a better RB. No one has said otherwise. But to pretend the gap is huge between them and even the Bengals, who are probably the worst RB room in thewir division, is lying to yourself. Ok, I disagree. 20 minutes ago, Daniel said: And if that's the biggest advantage the team has, it sure doesn't make it look like they're a threat to win the division. Never said otherwise. Go back and reread, I was answering a question and prefaced it by saying I thought the Browns win between 7-10 games this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said: What do you use for evaluating OL? Pff was used to prove Jonah Williams is average despite leading the NFL in sacks given up last year and the other 8 he gave up the year before…so any other metric at all would probably be better and more reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 And PFF has Williams as the 61st OT out of 80 so I’m not sure why he’s considered average even by those standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 Jonah isn't even going to be a starter this year, right? That's why the picked up Orlando Brown, wasnt it? Or is La'el Collins not expected to be healthy enough to start the season? If so, he might actually get a benefit from moving to the right side, where he was projected to play coming out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 41 minutes ago, MWil23 said: And PFF has Williams as the 61st OT out of 80 so I’m not sure why he’s considered average even by those standards. Why is it difficult for you to get your head around he was injured last year? 43 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Pff was used to prove Jonah Williams is average despite leading the NFL in sacks given up last year and the other 8 he gave up the year before… You didn’t read the article, did you? 44 minutes ago, MWil23 said: so any other metric at all would probably be better and more reasonable. Okay, so please provide that metric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 30 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Why is it difficult for you to get your head around he was injured last year? And the year before where he gave up 8 sacks? Or the fact that I prefaced it by saying “he’s always hurt and when he’s not he’s terrible”. 30 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: You didn’t read the article, did you? I don’t buy fluff pieces at all 30 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Okay, so please provide that metric. Impossible without taking into account film and scheme, so I’d prefer to evaluate sacks given up, penalties, etc. He is a subpar pass pro OT who is regularly hurt, and that’s being realistic if not outright generous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 Oh and I read the sob story about how he gave up 8 of 13 sacks in 3 games when he was hurt and why those shouldn’t count against him really. That’s insane. ”Yeah, take away his three worst games but only use his four best ones, don’t throw those out.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 Ignore what happened against TJ Watt one time, Myles Garrett, or Matt Judon and the best defensive mind of all time, look at the matchup the other time against Pittsburgh when he wasn’t 100%. But yes, legitimate article that’s not at all slanted. “He did well when he didn’t face 3 of the better pass rushers in the league when he was healthy.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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