Is Travis Kelce the GOAT?

[onejayhawk]

5 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I think the argument most would make is that he was the greatest at these things, but didn't play enough games to accumulate the bulk stats you're trying to look for here.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Kelce has been a healthier TE than Gronk was. I hate the PFR removed per-game stats from their player comparison otherwise I'd post the per-game stats, but I feel pretty confident Gronk's per-game stats are similar or better than Kelce's and his blocking is the best for any TE ever.

Similar is correct, very similar in some ways. For example, Gronk's best five seasons by AV are 18, 13, 13, 12, 9 while Kelce's are 14, 13, 12, 12, 11. Except for the one season when Gronk led the league in TD catches, Kelce matches him step-for-step and is more consistent. The next four are Gronk 7, 7, 6, 6 while Kelce is 10, 10, 9, 9. That's all nine years for Kelce. Gronk had three more partial seasons and one missed season. 

Take into account the big lead that Kelce had to overcome because Gronk started playing at 21 and Kelce did not start until he was 25. If you think it matters, Gronk had Brady for his whole career while Kelce had four years of Alex Smith. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by onejayhawk

[Chiefer]

On 6/22/2023 at 8:57 AM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

That doesn't make sense since he's top 10 in every major TE category all-time...we're not talking about a guy who was a "what if" candidate here. Yeah his injuries derailed a little bit, but doesn't that solidify that he would've been the unquestioned GOAT had he not been injured since he's putting up monster career stats with those injuries?

Yeah but he’s not number one in every major TE category including GOaT contention,,,,because he got injured so much. 
 

it derailed most of his entire career not just some of it; including his playoff resume. 15 total TDs for his entire playoff career, Kelce practically got that in 4 seasons.

Injuries should always play a role in valuation of any player, or Gale Sayers or Terrell Davis are the GOaT RBs.

[Duluther]

I can't pretend to evaluate these guys' blocking performances. I would highly value my TE's blocking, so that's a big asterisk going forward.

In regard to receiving, Kelce is like none other I've seen (I've seen Gonzalez and onward). His ability to get create space is unmatched, he has the best lateral movement with the ball in his hands, and has elite endurance+durability. 

[RedGold]

It's only between Gronk and Kelce for me.    From there,  I would guess it depends what you want from your TE.     I do think Kelce's blocking is better than most give credit,   we just don't ask he do it all game from an inline position (why would we?).    Kelce is a pretty good blocking on the move though.  

For me,  obviously I'm taking Kelce.   His abilities to;  read the coverages pre snap, constantly create separation, and create YAC is unmatched.    He is also smart about knowing when to not go for extra yardage and just gets down before he takes a blow.  I think this plays a huge part in his longevity.       

 

 

 

[Kiwibrown]

Kelce would end up being like Emmitt Smith the most of everything but not the most dominant prime. Which is Gronk. 

Kelce is smooth. Smooth has been done by a ton of players. 

Gronk is like Earl Campbell  a freak of nature that had unparalleled strength. Unlikely we will ever see it again.

[FrantikRam]

Yes, Kelce is the GOAT TE.

7 straight 1000 yard seasons in insane.

During this seven years stretch of dominance he:

Played two years without Mahomes

Played one year without Tyreek Hill

Played four years with both

 

If you mix those 7 years up and ask someone who doesn't have his stats memorize to assign which occurred without Mahomes and without Hill, it would not be obvious.

Kelce's first two years, which were BEFORE both Mahomes and Hill, are basically Gonzalez's average season.

To me it's not that close.

[minutemancl]

He's behind Gonzalez and Gronk. 

[-Hope-]

if you ask me who i want for a game or a season, it's gronk, pretty easily. when we factor in entire body of work, things get more complicated. kelce i'd say has as good an argument for GOAT as gonzalez or gronk, but it's really a toss-up to me.

[RedGold]

You have to go back 17 years, in order Kelce to not be listed in the top 10 receiving yards leaders in that time frame.. for any position.

[HerbertGOAT]

All of the comparisons regarding receiving numbers between Gronk Gonzo and Kelce, among others, show that they are all pretty close and comparable in that department. Gronk is the only one who could block like a Pro Bowl tackle.

[LieutenantGains]

Gronk is the GOAT. Top 10 most dominant player in NFL history, regardless of position. I've seen him block prime Suggs, Miller, Watt, etc. And the only way to stop him in the passing game was to hold him or PI him (which the refs often let defenders get away with, similar to prime Shaq) or try to dive at his knees to injure him.

Edited August 21, 2023 by LieutenantGains