Top 10 DL/Edge Units in the NFL

[Ozzy]

3 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

Did you see the 6 DEs I listed? The Lions are expected to keep those

I do not really care who they are expected to keep, and didn't Julian Okwara have freaking 3 sacks their first preseason game?  Yeah maybe they should keep that guy, he looked pretty damn good!

 

Cutting him would be pretty foolish if he keeps up that level of play.  

[Superduperman]

3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I do not really care who they are expected to keep, and didn't Julian Okwara have freaking 3 sacks their first preseason game?  Yeah maybe they should keep that guy, he looked pretty damn good!

 

Cutting him would be pretty foolish if he keeps up that level of play.  

He was playing against dudes who will be working at the car wash next month

He's not without talent but he's very inconsistent and provides very little off the ball or on special teams.

I wouldn't be acting like I know what the Lions should do when you forgot who James Houston is and also forgot to include the Lions in your OL listings entirely. Tbh your level of knowledge about the Lions doesn't impress me.

[Ozzy]

10 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

He was playing against dudes who will be working at the car wash next month

He's not without talent but he's very inconsistent and provides very little off the ball or on special teams.

I wouldn't be acting like I know what the Lions should do when you forgot who James Houston is and also forgot to include the Lions in your OL listings entirely. Tbh your level of knowledge about the Lions doesn't impress me.

Car wash?  Maybe you want to get some new material because that has been played, and last time I checked even playing in the preseason in the NFL is an accomplishment. Pretty sure you have never played in an NFL preseason game, if you compare it to being as easy as working at a car wash.

 

How much you want to bet he makes the roster?  As for the OL, yeah maybe I underrated them but their interior backup OL are a total mess outside of Glasgow.  Their backup OT situation is a bit better with Ifedi, Nelson and Eze.  The starting group is solid baring injury which will almost certainly happen and usually does.  I should include them no question, and sorry if going over 32 rosters I make some mistakes.  Last time I checked you did not outside of your favorite team which is basically what most are doing, comment on that, and that is it.  Bit harder looking through them all much less even following all those players on the rosters to some degree.  

[Superduperman]

3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Car wash?  Maybe you want to get some new material because that has been played, and last time I checked even playing in the preseason in the NFL is an accomplishment. Pretty sure you have never played in an NFL preseason game, if you compare it to being as easy as working at a car wash.

 

How much you want to bet he makes the roster?  As for the OL, yeah maybe I underrated them but their interior backup OL are a total mess outside of Glasgow.  Their backup OT situation is a bit better with Ifedi, Nelson and Eze.  The starting group is solid baring injury which will almost certainly happen and usually does.  I should include them no question, and sorry if going over 32 rosters I make some mistakes.  Last time I checked you did not outside of your favorite team which is basically what most are doing, comment on that, and that is it.  Bit harder looking through them all much less even following all those players on the rosters to some degree.  

You seem upset. If you don't want to get criticism on your poor knowledge, don't make the posts and act like you know what you're talking about over people who actually follow their teams.

How much do I want to bet Julian Okwara gets cut? Barring injury I'd say it's about 95% certain. Maybe his brother could get cut instead, but Hutchinson, Harris, Cominsky, Paschal and Houston are locks, no way any of them get cut over him.

[Ozzy]

3 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

You seem upset. If you don't want to get criticism on your poor knowledge, don't make the posts and act like you know what you're talking about over people who actually follow their teams.

How much do I want to bet Julian Okwara gets cut? Barring injury I'd say it's about 95% certain. Maybe his brother could get cut instead, but Hutchinson, Harris, Cominsky, Paschal and Houston are locks, no way any of them get cut over him.

Houston is a OLB is he not, and just drops down and rushes from time to time.  He should really not be considered in the depth chart of either DE spot.  As for Cominsky or Paschal, sure is nice to have a big thick DE but no need for two, especially if an edge like Julian Okwara has more juice and pop in pass rushing.  Especially with Harris who is on the decline potentially.  

 

Keeping Hutchinson, Harris, Paschal, R. Okwara and J. Okwara is not that outlandish to believe.  And honestly who cares, if they cut Julian Okwara he will be picked up by another team no question about it.  

 

I do find it funny, the guy has a great game and 3 sacks in the preseason and you say he is total **** or something, 95% certain to get cut.  Ok.  

[Superduperman]

5 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Houston is a OLB is he not, and just drops down and rushes from time to time.  He should really not be considered in the depth chart of either DE spot.  As for Cominsky or Paschal, sure is nice to have a big thick DE but no need for two, especially if an edge like Julian Okwara has more juice and pop in pass rushing.  Especially with Harris who is on the decline potentially.  

 

Keeping Hutchinson, Harris, Paschal, R. Okwara and J. Okwara is not that outlandish to believe.  And honestly who cares, if they cut Julian Okwara he will be picked up by another team no question about it.  

 

I do find it funny, the guy has a great game and 3 sacks in the preseason and you say he is total **** or something, 95% certain to get cut.  Ok.  

What I'm saying is more that the Lions' depth at DE is better than people think, which was my point in this thread all along. 

Also, I'd take Cominsky over J. Okwara 100% of the time, and the Lions would too. The real "we don't need two of those" issue is Okwara vs. Houston, pass rushing specialist edge players who really aren't OLBs because they lack off-ball skills. Houston had 8 sacks in 10 games last season. 

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, Superduperman said:

What I'm saying is more that the Lions' depth at DE is better than people think, which was my point in this thread all along. 

Also, I'd take Cominsky over J. Okwara 100% of the time, and the Lions would too. The real "we don't need two of those" issue is Okwara vs. Houston, pass rushing specialist edge players who really aren't OLBs because they lack off-ball skills. Houston had 8 sacks in 10 games last season. 

Sure they are not OLBs but then again yeah they are, it is the same for the Bills with Floyd, Eagles with Reddick, possibly the Jets with Huff or McDonald, Chiefs possibly with Chennel or Gay etc.  It is a way for a team not to be in a 3/4 defense and have a base 4/3 yet still have multiple rushers coming from different spots and get after the QB.  Clearly that is working for more than one defensive unit and they probably copy plays that each other does and how they use those rush OLBs.  

[Superduperman]

9 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Sure they are not OLBs but then again yeah they are, it is the same for the Bills with Floyd, Eagles with Reddick, possibly the Jets with Huff or McDonald, Chiefs possibly with Chennel or Gay etc.  It is a way for a team not to be in a 3/4 defense and have a base 4/3 yet still have multiple rushers coming from different spots and get after the QB.  Clearly that is working for more than one defensive unit and they probably copy plays that each other does and how they use those rush OLBs.  

But the Lions don't use "rush OLBs." They run a 4-2-5 with only two off ball linebackers. Their rush ends might line up in a two point stance but they are still in DE positions 

[EagleBlueDon]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

 

 

Von Miller   Haason Reddick
Greg Rousseau   Josh Sweat
Leonard Floyd  Brandon Graham
AJ Epenesa  Derek Barnett 
Shaq Lawson  Janarius Robinson
Boogie Basham  Nolan Smith

 

Make it simple, say the top rushers on each team, that is a wash even though one is a sure fire Hall of Famer and the other has been great the last three years, first three was nothing.  Say the 2nd best rushers on each team that is a wash even though Rousseau is three years younger than Sweat but both are very good.  Floyd to me is better than Graham overall in terms of range and difficulty blocking.   Epenesa is better than Barnett now and down the road because he is younger and I would say Lawson is by far more proven than Robinson who has never really done anything in the NFL, super talented and maybe he breaks out but he has literally done nothing in the NFL currently.  Then Basham, sure down the road maybe Nolan Smith gets that nod but Basham has actually produced as a rusher and until Nolan Smith proves he is a edge rusher, I will consider him more of a ILB potentially.  

 

So to me that is pretty clear, the difference is the DTs for the Eagles are better but the Bills could surprise some people and if Oliver takes his game to another level and Ford provides much needed toughness inside, they could be a force and it will make the edge guys even better.  That is why to me the Bills have the Eagles in terms of edge guys and yeah a ton of it has to do with the depth overall.

 

Again 70 sacks will be damn hard to get to again, and clearly Gannon is one hell of a coach in terms of pass rush and defense.  Was just the preseason but the Cardinals got some damn good rushes in that preseason game week one, never looked like that previously.  My guess is Cam Thomas, Myjai Sanders, Dennis Gardeck or BJ Ojulari is going to breakout with a good amount of sacks this year, or more than one of those guys will.  

 

I like Sean Desai though because he is super smart and communicates really well, super young coach, but not sure how great he is at pressure and exotic blitzes.  We will see.  

 

 

I appreciate everything that Von Miller has done, but Reddick is most definitely the superior defender at this point in their careers. I believe only TJ Watt and Myles Garrett have more sacks than him over the past 3 years. That is tenure and consistent production. No flukes there. You offer any team either player and all 32 are taking Reddick lol. Sweat is superior to Rousseau. Stronger and longer tenured track record, and his age isn't high enough to warrant it being any kind of disadvantage. Leonard Floyd is 31, so he is no spring chicken just like Graham, but at least Graham has scored in the 80+ range per PFF since like 2014 and Floyd's best year was a 70. Not that pff is the ultimate barometer for EDGE play but I think, especially for an isolation of this upcoming season, the strong majority of people would choose Graham over Floyd. He's been consistently a superior player that has shown essentially zero signs of slowing down.

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, EagleBlueDon said:

I appreciate everything that Von Miller has done, but Reddick is most definitely the superior defender at this point in their careers. I believe only TJ Watt and Myles Garrett have more sacks than him over the past 3 years. That is tenure and consistent production. No flukes there. You offer any team either player and all 32 are taking Reddick lol. Sweat is superior to Rousseau. Stronger and longer tenured track record, and his age isn't high enough to warrant it being any kind of disadvantage. Leonard Floyd is 31, so he is no spring chicken just like Graham, but at least Graham has scored in the 80+ range per PFF since like 2014 and Floyd's best year was a 70. Not that pff is the ultimate barometer for EDGE play but I think, especially for an isolation of this upcoming season, the strong majority of people would choose Graham over Floyd. He's been consistently a superior player that has shown essentially zero signs of slowing down.

You are totally disregarding any type of growth and improvement by a younger player.  Rousseau has started 30 games and been in the league two years, Sweat started 32 games and has been in the league five years.  Sweat was allowed what three years to sit back and get stronger, think if Rousseau adds some much needed strength and he is already ahead of Sweat in terms of starting right out the gate.  No reason to not believe he will be taking a big step as a player in a year or two.

 

 

Leonard Floyd is 30, Brandon Graham is 35.  Maybe Graham will get better and better with age but honestly he will hit a wall at some point and no question about it, and give me the 6-5 240 dude that is 5 years younger as a slight nod.  He is insurance for Von Miller though honestly so he might not be used a ton as a rusher, will be interesting what they do with him especially in nickel.

 

So the 6 year age gap for Von Miller and Reddick matters where the 5 year gap between Graham and Floyd does not?  And sure maybe Von Miller is total trash but he has been far more consistent over his entire career than Reddick has been.  And I still feel you greatly underrate the playcalling and coaching of Gannon not there, much less the unrealistic expectations that they need to get 70 sacks again this year which will most likely not happen at all, especially with everyone gunning for them and prepared for them.

 

If one just looks at top three, with the questions on how they use Floyd sure Eagles might have it, but that is disregarding any improvement at all by younger players.  And that is also assuming AJ Epenesa does not continue to get better and better which he has been over the past few years.  And the Eagles do not have anyone like that sitting in the wings waiting to take over potentially.  The Bills do.  

 

[Jakuvious]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

So the 6 year age gap for Von Miller and Reddick matters where the 5 year gap between Graham and Floyd does not?  And sure maybe Von Miller is total trash but he has been far more consistent over his entire career than Reddick has been.  And I still feel you greatly underrate the playcalling and coaching of Gannon not there, much less the unrealistic expectations that they need to get 70 sacks again this year which will most likely not happen at all, especially with everyone gunning for them and prepared for them.

I've seen you mention something to this effect in a few posts around these threads, now. Why does this matter at all? How are the expectations relevant to a positional ranking? It makes it sound like you're ranking who is going to improve the most, or who is going to surprise, not who is actually the best. Like, who cares if the Eagles don't get 70 sacks, just because they did last year? Sure, expectations are high, but second place last year was 55. They can take like a 20% step back statistically and still be the best DL at getting sacks in football. Why does them having higher expectations this year play into a ranking of how good they are? Even if the Eagles don't match what they did last year, and the Bills do better than they did last year, the Eagles may still very well have a better DL.

You made a similar kind of comment about KC's young CBs, that last year they had no expectations, but this year they do. How does that have any relevance to just how good they are? Just don't see what difference that makes. If they play as well as last year, that's still just as good, even if they're now expected to do it, while last year they overachieved.

Quote

 In terms of pure corners sure but I think a lot of those guys took people by surprise and had little to no expectations last year.  Now they will.

Like, no one has higher expectations at QB after last year than Mahomes, but that doesn't mean he's not the best QB in football, even if he doesn't match last year and someone else exceeds expectations. You wouldn't rank Trevor Lawrence above Mahomes in a QB ranking, even if you think next year Lawrence exceeds what he did this year, and Mahomes fails to match what he did this year (both possible, if not likely, things to occur.) Because that doesn't mean he's a better QB, just that he's on the rise.

[Daniel]

Titans definitely belong in the top 10.  Simmons is a top 3 IDL, Teair Tart is insanely underrated, and is about to get paid by another team in 24.  He was one of the better noses in football last season, and Autry has been a popular name for most underrated since before he was with the Titans, and he just had a 10 sack season playing out of position.  Depth after that is a little questionable, but I can't think of more than two or three teams with a better starting interior.

Edge is not as quite as strong, but still very good, with better depth.  Landry missed all of last year, but is our top Edge, and having him back will be huge for an already good group.  Key is an improvement on Dupree, and Weaver as a third becomes an excellent third.  He did pretty well as a de facto starter last year.

It's the strength of the defense, and the Titans had a statistically very good defense last year pre-the entire team getting injured halfway through.  And that was without Landry.

[SmittyBacall]

52 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Titans definitely belong in the top 10.  Simmons is a top 3 IDL, Teair Tart is insanely underrated, and is about to get paid by another team in 24.  He was one of the better noses in football last season, and Autry has been a popular name for most underrated since before he was with the Titans, and he just had a 10 sack season playing out of position.  Depth after that is a little questionable, but I can't think of more than two or three teams with a better starting interior.

Edge is not as quite as strong, but still very good, with better depth.  Landry missed all of last year, but is our top Edge, and having him back will be huge for an already good group.  Key is an improvement on Dupree, and Weaver as a third becomes an excellent third.  He did pretty well as a de facto starter last year.

It's the strength of the defense, and the Titans had a statistically very good defense last year pre-the entire team getting injured halfway through.  And that was without Landry.

Tennessee was third in 3rd down defense last year, and that was with a bum secondary. That defensive front eats.

[Daniel]

Just now, SmittyBacall said:

Tennessee was third in 3rd down defense last year, and that was with a bum secondary. That defensive front eats.

Yeah.  DL and RB are the only position groups on the team I think are top 10, but I think both are firmly there.

Titans lost a lot of interior depth this offseason, and Autry is a year older, so there could be a severe dropoff if the wrong player gets injured.  But healthy, it's a great unit.

I am more hopeful about the secondary this year.  Safeties are amongst the NFL's best, but the CBs.  Well, let's just say they aren't.  A ton of young players though, so maybe they'll improve, and we'll see the Titans defense with a mediocre secondary.

[Ozzy]

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

Titans definitely belong in the top 10.  Simmons is a top 3 IDL, Teair Tart is insanely underrated, and is about to get paid by another team in 24.  He was one of the better noses in football last season, and Autry has been a popular name for most underrated since before he was with the Titans, and he just had a 10 sack season playing out of position.  Depth after that is a little questionable, but I can't think of more than two or three teams with a better starting interior.

Edge is not as quite as strong, but still very good, with better depth.  Landry missed all of last year, but is our top Edge, and having him back will be huge for an already good group.  Key is an improvement on Dupree, and Weaver as a third becomes an excellent third.  He did pretty well as a de facto starter last year.

It's the strength of the defense, and the Titans had a statistically very good defense last year pre-the entire team getting injured halfway through.  And that was without Landry.

Depth matters and their depth is pretty damn questionable outside of Rashad Weaver who is arguably their only quality proven backup.  That is an issue when almost every team rotates players constantly to keep them fresh and active.

 

The depth is more than questionable and to me that is why I did not include them in the top 10.  Now if no one ever gets hurt great but that will not happen and someone will get hurt and be out and thus impacts the unit greatly.  Zero chance all 3 starting DL and the 2 starting OLB play the entire season.

 

Maybe Shevlin or Rush can do some magic or Okuayinonu, because someone as a backup has to step up for them to be an elite unit.