Fire AB

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Well the Browns have at least 14 opponents per season so they have to watch at least one game from 11 other teams and 2 from 3 if they are watching every Browns game.

And they’re watching it through the lens of a Browns fan.  When things don’t go well for us it’s because someone is a moron who needs “to be held accountable” and not because this is just how things go for most of the league, much of the time.  There are a handful of top tier teams and then everyone else.  

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

 

Well, it just depends on what the complaining is about. It's acceptable to complain about certain things but you're dumb if you complain about other things. You're discounted if you give excuses about this person's performance but it's valid if it's about this person.

Complain about Stef and you're an idiot because excuses.

Complain about anything else in the entire world and it's valid.

I had to explain the value of context in numbers yesterday and today I have to explain the difference between reasonable, valid criticism and complaining just because you’re (not you personally) big mad we didn’t win every game??  You’re smart enough to know the differences in both instances, so I’m not sure what we’re doing here?

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

There are some hypersensitive people in here that won't stand for complaining about Stefanski.
 

It depends on the complaining.  The accountability rants after a road loss to one of the hottest teams in football while dealing with the injuries we are at the positions those guys play is asinine.

Teams are gonna lose some games, it’s ok.  I’m not sure we need to discuss replacing everyone after every loss. At least imo.

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I think he is decent and that's hard to come by for this team so I hope he sticks around.
 

Same.   We’ve seen a lot of turds, he’s not one of them.

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

That said, since his inaugural season he has a losing record. Slightly below average as a team record wise for the last 3 years. Do we have a 17th ranked roster? My guess would be a clear top 10 roster. I think Joe Woods takes a lot of those L's but he was under Stef so he doesn't get a pass.
 

It’s a QB driven league.  You know this, I know this, every causal fan knows this. 
 

Do we have the 17th ranked roster?  No.  17th best QB situation over that time with an injured and meh Baker, a career backup in Jacoby, sex pest playing sometimes, MVPJ, DTR and soon the corpse of Joe Flacco? Also no.  
 

Stefanski owns keeping Woods, no argument there.  But he replaced him and we’ve got the best defense in the league now.  At what point is the “but Joe Woods” thing sort of irrelevant moving forward?

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

We're 14-14 since we went all in for a QB. Yeah, we've only gotten 12 games out of him but when he has played, he has an 81.7 rating. While with Houston he had a 104.5 rating.
 

We’re also 8-4 in those games and 5-1 (4-1) this season.  What’s the issue? We’re winning, he’s looked better the longer he’s been here, etc.. He’s not putting up huge numbers in wins?  That’s the problem?

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

But career year from Brissett...All three of Brissett's seasons where he started more than 5 games are interchangeable. 

 

Who do you think might be partially responsible for such a dramatic improvement in play? 

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Every team deals with injury. Unless it's a QB it doesn't hold much merit. If it's a QB that wasn't playing well anyway it doesn't get much merit.
 

Agree to disagree on the last bits there.  
 

All injuries aren’t the same, agree there, but an impact player is an impact player. Some positions are harder to replace than others with equal talent (QB, OT, CB, WR imo). Even if you’re able to replicate much of the production, a player like Chubb has an impact on the game that’s not measured on the stat sheet.  He’s going to dictate how many defenders are in the box and force DCs to make tough decisions.  Jerome Ford isn’t gonna do that.  At least not at this point.
 

The difference in ability and how they can impact a game between sex pest and the backups is astronomical.  You can’t defend them in the same ways and you can’t run the same concepts offensively.

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Top 3 defense in the league is a positive for Stef. Good ground game even without Chubb is a positive for Stef. The passing game, drops, unprepared QB, underperforming QB, those are also attributed to the HC.
 

Yes and no.  I don’t credit Stefanski with the defense at all tbh. Just me.

I also don’t hold him responsible for a pro not catching a pass.  I’m not sure what a coach is supposed to do to fix that issue?  What would you suggest?
 

As far as the QB preparation/performance, idk 🤷‍♂️.  If it were just a matter of going out there and coaching the next man up and getting them prepared I’m guessing we wouldn’t see the same QBs succeeding year after year when their coaches get promotions and good coaches like BB struggle when a player moves on.  Probably wouldn’t see quarter billion dollar contracts and multiple firsts being traded for these guys.  Teams would just draft some new guy and coach them up if that’s all it took.

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

If you don't want the HC to be responsible for the passing game then he shouldn't get credit for D and ST. In reality they are all under his watch and he loses points for holding on to Woods as long as he did. 
 

Sure.  

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

He isn't flawless. He hasn't even been above average since his 1st season imo. The offense looks so much different since 2020. The passing concept changed the following season and hasn't returned. 
 

You’re gonna adapt your offense to changes in players and things like injuries.  Isn’t that what we all want from a coach?  A guy who adapts to what he has vs “my scheme” like, for example, Joe Woods?

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Don't fire Stefanski.

Agreed.

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

AB may have to go because of the Watson trade, it was a gamble that he is losing atm.
 

He’s also assembled a top 10 roster (in your estimation) and the best defense in the league. 
 

The pervert deal looks bad because of the suspension being double what the precedents (not going down this rabbit hole, he’s gross, we agree) were at the time and injuries to his throwing shoulder.  When he’s played he’s looked… ok.  Good/great at times, rusty a bit last season, awful early this season.

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Probably depends on how we finish the season. A playoff berth may save everyone's jobs.

I think it depends on how things go even if we miss.  Wheels falling off vs competing to the end, etc.. I personally think everyone will be back.

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I think some people think that any knock on any part of Stefanski is people calling for him to be fired. For the vast majority I don't think that's true. We'd like to see improvement and growth but that doesn't mean move on. 

I have no issue with any of that.  I do think there are some folks with an agenda, we both know who they are, who only show up when the most recent game makes their narratives look good.  There’s not nuance or balance to their points as you’ve just done, there’s just repetitive nonsense.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Jesus god what did I just type 😳 
 

don’t read all that, absolutely not worth the time.

[BetterCallSaul]

11 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

The team we want is an explosive passing attack. It’s very difficult to build.

And even more difficult to maintain. QB's and WR's and pass blocking OT's cost an absurd amount of money.

Run blockers and plodding RB's are significantly cheaper.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

And even more difficult to maintain. QB's and WR's and pass blocking OT's cost an absurd amount of money.

Run blockers and plodding RB's are significantly cheaper.

There’s a reason for this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions

Just read the list.  
 

Sure, folks love to point to Trent Dilfer and their historically great defense and Brad Johnson and that fantastic defense, but those were 20+ years ago.

Baring the occasional exception if you want a ring you’d better have a top tier QB and the associated passing attack.  

[BetterCallSaul]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

There’s a reason for this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions

Just read the list.  
 

Sure, folks love to point to Trent Dilfer and their historically great defense and Brad Johnson and that fantastic defense, but those were 20+ years ago.

Baring the occasional exception if you want a ring you’d better have a top tier QB and the associated passing attack.  

Yeah for sure. It’s just really hard to build that up is all. Usually those teams have dreadful defenses, as they have no money to pay those top dollar pass game guys. 

[ReggieCamp]

AB deserves heat for the Watson trade, for sure. But that doesn't mean he should be fired. He's done a lot of good things, and we desperately need some continuity for a change.

Imagine if SF cleaned house after possibly the worst FO move in history (trading up for Lance). Hell, they might win the SB this year.

[Thomas5737]

55 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Jesus god what did I just type 😳 
 

don’t read all that, absolutely not worth the time.

Yeah, you were replying to me and after a while I had to see how much further it went on... geesh 

As far as Watson winning games, I'll give him credit for the 2nd half against the Ravens after a dreadful 1st half. Titans, Bengals and Cardinals I could have won at QB, those 3 teams scored a total of 6 points. 

Watson gets no credit for the Colts game and is the main reason we lost to the Steelers.

So Stefanski is winning with Watson at QB but why can't he get anything out of him that is close to what he used to be? 

[Thomas5737]

15 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

AB deserves heat for the Watson trade, for sure. But that doesn't mean he should be fired. He's done a lot of good things, and we desperately need some continuity for a change.

Imagine if SF cleaned house after possibly the worst FO move in history (trading up for Lance). Hell, they might win the SB this year.

AB also gets the blame for no good backup QB plan.

Also a lot of people are talking about how losing DPJ is making Stef's life harder so he gets blame for that.

Otherwise It is a good roster. Some positions are overcompensated but many people write that off to nobody wants to play in Cleveland so you overpay. 

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The pervert deal looks bad because of the suspension being double what the precedents

Not going to get into what it should have been but there was no precedent for this. If you go by "per civil claim" it was low. Many expected it to be a full season and I think AB wouldn't have been shocked by that. Also, there was still one lingering criminal charge when the trade went down. I'm sure they had a good read that it would get dismissed but if it wouldn't had, the suspension could have been worse. Along with potential jail time. 

[candyman93]

1 hour ago, BetterCallSaul said:

And even more difficult to maintain. QB's and WR's and pass blocking OT's cost an absurd amount of money.

Run blockers and plodding RB's are significantly cheaper.

You’re right 

 

I also disagree with the notion that we’re screwed long term. We’re only in trouble long term if Berry can’t find talent with his 2nd and mid round picks.

 

I think we can all agree that the following players he drafted are good or at least very solid- Grant Delpit, JOK, MJ Emerson, and Dawand Jones.
 

I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest those 4 players could have multiple pro bowl trips in the future. I’m biased, but I think Emerson and Jones will be VERY good.

 

But Berry has to get lucky and draft another possibly VERY good player in 2024.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

23 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah, you were replying to me and after a while I had to see how much further it went on... geesh 

As far as Watson winning games, I'll give him credit for the 2nd half against the Ravens after a dreadful 1st half. Titans, Bengals and Cardinals I could have won at QB, those 3 teams scored a total of 6 points. 

Watson gets no credit for the Colts game and is the main reason we lost to the Steelers.

So Stefanski is winning with Watson at QB but why can't he get anything out of him that is close to what he used to be? 

Imo?  I think the biggest issue has been the time he’s missed for various reasons.  
 

Hard to get in a groove and such when you’re in and out of the lineup.  hopefully that happens next season.  

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

21 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

AB also gets the blame for no good backup QB plan.

Also a lot of people are talking about how losing DPJ is making Stef's life harder so he gets blame for that.

Otherwise It is a good roster. Some positions are overcompensated but many people write that off to nobody wants to play in Cleveland so you overpay. 

DPJ had 8 receptions before the trade and none with Detroit since.  
 

People can say what they like, but I’m not seeing the loss personally. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

You’re right 

 

I also disagree with the notion that we’re screwed long term. We’re only in trouble long term if Berry can’t find talent with his 2nd and mid round picks.

 

I think we can all agree that the following players he drafted are good or at least very solid- Grant Delpit, JOK, MJ Emerson, and Dawand Jones.
 

I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest those 4 players could have multiple pro bowl trips in the future. I’m biased, but I think Emerson and Jones will be VERY good.

 

But Berry has to get lucky and draft another possibly VERY good player in 2024.

I think they’re also a good plan in place for development which we haven’t seen here since…. Idk. 
 

Guys like Wypler, Ika, McGuire all had essentially a redshirt season.  That’s a great thing and only happens when there’s a long term plan paired with continuity.

[NateDawg]

What we have done transitioning the defense this year certainly deserves credit. Personally, I think more of that goes to Jim Schwartz than the general manager, but I am fine spreading the love there. He did a good job certainly identifying some young CB talent. Like Emerson in R3. It’s hard to really give him much credit for the current state of the offense, though. For what we invested at quarterback, what we have is a disaster made worse by not having a good fallback option. We had a team ready to compete with what we brought in on defense and failed to play it safe at the most important position in football with anyone competent behind the starter. It’s a mixed bag. Outside of Emerson and the guys he has drafted from Ohio State, the draft picks he has made have been mostly underwhelming. Couple pretty good players here and there. I think he gets one more year after this, but there’s no way if you aren’t a competitor next year, he can survive it. As much as I like him, you can say the same about Kevin Stefanski. This is supposed to be the window.

[mtmmike]

5 hours ago, DawgX said:

Post of the year

No worries. life beautiful here in Jackson trying to get me 2017 ford expedition el for 20,000