Slappy Mc Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, lavar703 said: I don't know man? We had an OL with Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Morgan Moses and Ereck Flowers and we still sucked. 3 of those guys were top 10 picks. I just think if you don't have a QB you don't have much of anything. And I'm not sure I agree that the 49ers proved anything other than they completely lucked out on Brock Purdy. I don't think Ereck ever played with Trent, but I could be wrong. That aside, we were actually pretty good with that offensive line, Moses and Williams were stout on the ends. Scherff came in and did good things at G. Pretty sure we won the division with Kirk C as the QB at least once. The Cousins and Williams exits should have signaled a rebuild, but Dan Snyder doesn't rebuild. We ended up with Ron Rivera who gutted the roster of decent players and replaced them with a bunch of bad players playing in a scheme that doesn't maximize what they do best. I understand your feelings on QB and when it comes to a SB, that is an absolute must IMO. But we are a long way away from that. This roster is in its first year of a massive overhaul, I think 2025 is when I would find my QBotF, until then, build up the roster around the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 11 minutes ago, lavar703 said: I don't know man? We had an OL with Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Morgan Moses and Ereck Flowers and we still sucked. 3 of those guys were top 10 picks. I just think if you don't have a QB you don't have much of anything. And I'm not sure I agree that the 49ers proved anything other than they completely lucked out on Brock Purdy. And I wouldn't say you're cluttering at all. Me disagreeing doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading your side of it. I enjoy the discourse my dude. Agreed, that's where I'm at. A decade ago my point of view was more like Slappy Mc’s but after a decade of not having a top 10 QB and topping out at 10 wins (and that was just once in 2010) and never winning a playoff game despite making the playoffs 3 times in the last 12 years, I want the best QB I can get, bc each of those 3 times we made the playoffs we lost to the better QB. I’m damn sure tired of that! We have to shoot our shot & get the best QB we can in this draft and with this #2 pick gives us the best chance we can to hopefully playoff games & even a Super Bowl again someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 4 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: I don't think Ereck ever played with Trent, but I could be wrong. That aside, we were actually pretty good with that offensive line, Moses and Williams were stout on the ends. Scherff came in and did good things at G. Pretty sure we won the division with Kirk C as the QB at least once. The Cousins and Williams exits should have signaled a rebuild, but Dan Snyder doesn't rebuild. We ended up with Ron Rivera who gutted the roster of decent players and replaced them with a bunch of bad players playing in a scheme that doesn't maximize what they do best. I understand your feelings on QB and when it comes to a SB, that is an absolute must IMO. But we are a long way away from that. This roster is in its first year of a massive overhaul, I think 2025 is when I would find my QBotF, until then, build up the roster around the position. Winning the division is not the goal. If you want the best chance you can get to win playoff games & hopefully a Super Bowl again someday then you want to draft the most talented QB you can. We have a chance to do that & should. We shouldn't do what we did in 2020 & it's even more clear now that Drake Maye or Daniels should be picked bc neither has a major injury question (Tua w/ the hip) or questions if they can be an alpha male/lead an offense that Herbert had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 17 minutes ago, lavar703 said: And I wouldn't say you're cluttering at all. Me disagreeing doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading your side of it. I enjoy the discourse my dude. 100% agree. I’m also not fully on the same page, but everything you’re saying has merit, @Slappy Mc. There is absolutely a part of me that thinks, ”Damn, look at the haul the Bears got last year. That could be awfully nice with Adam Peters running our draft.” And it’s valuable for us to discuss each side of it and try to play out all the scenarios — that’s kinda the whole reason that places like this exist! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 36 minutes ago, turtle28 said: We have to shoot our shot & get the best QB we can in this draft and with this #2 pick gives us the best chance we can to hopefully playoff games & even a Super Bowl again someday. And here’s the thing about this for me. It would be a different situation if we were talking about giving up a big package of picks to trade up for a QB. Because we have this extremely high pick, we can take Maye or Daniels without crippling our ability to build around them at all. We will have all our future picks, and we will still have multiple extra picks this year — to go with a ton of cap space. Which means we can do the thing we all know is best for our young QB: invest heavily in giving him sufficient infrastructure to succeed. My overall goal for the offseason would be to add 5 new players to the offense, in addition to the QB. Two starting OL (probably RT and C, because I think Wylie can probably survive for a year at LG), two new pass-catchers (really looking hard at Schultz, plus a WR in the draft), and one pass-catching back (had been assuming draft, Bucky Irving specifically, but the Lynn-Ekeler connection seems like that’d be on the table). That is almost certainly not an elite offensive roster. But it’s good enough that Maye/Daniels likely wouldn’t be falling into bad habits if they play as rookies, simply because there’s no talent around them. That’s my whole goal. Give them a sufficient platform from which they can succeed if they’ve got the goods — and from which we can fairly evaluate them if they don’t succeed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I will say however, I don't understand the idea that Jayden Daniels has a higher ceiling than Maye? Just doesn't make sense to me at all? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, lavar703 said: I will say however, I don't understand the idea that Jayden Daniels has a higher ceiling than Maye? Just doesn't make sense to me at all? His wheels I suppose, if we're in a vacuum where their arms are the same. But if Maye ends up being what Trey Lance should have been, who knows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: His wheels I suppose, if we're in a vacuum where their arms are the same. But if Maye ends up being what Trey Lance should have been, who knows? But that's the thing, Maye can run too. 1200 yards and 16 TD in two years isn't bad. People act like he's this stationary dude who can't make plays outside of the pocket. He's going to run a 4.5-4.6. For 6'4 230 that's pretty quick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 Just now, lavar703 said: But that's the thing, Maye can run too. 1200 yards and 16 TD in two years isn't bad. People act like he's this stationary dude who can't make plays outside of the pocket. He's going to run a 4.5-4.6. For 6'4 230 that's pretty quick. Nah, I know Maye can run. He just isn't Jayden Daniels on his feet with the shift/lateral. Like Jayden's peak is probably what Lamar did, right? I don't think Maye will eclipse 400. Nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 36 minutes ago, lavar703 said: But that's the thing, Maye can run too. 1200 yards and 16 TD in two years isn't bad. People act like he's this stationary dude who can't make plays outside of the pocket. He's going to run a 4.5-4.6. For 6'4 230 that's pretty quick. He actually plays better outside the pocket on the move. He and JJ McCarthy are both like that. Not to say Maye doesn’t play well from within because he does I just think he actually throws on the move very well 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, MikeT14 said: Nah, I know Maye can run. He just isn't Jayden Daniels on his feet with the shift/lateral. Like Jayden's peak is probably what Lamar did, right? I don't think Maye will eclipse 400. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t see Lamar when I watch Jayden Daniels run. I see straight line speed, not ankle breaking moves like Lamar & Vick have/had. When I watch Daniels, I see RG3 2.0. Daniels is a one read & then run QB. He’s a straight line runner with sprinters speed & he’s built like a sprinter/WR at 6’4 200 to 210 pounds. Considering he’s 2 inches taller than RG3 and at the least 5 pounds lighter than him, he’s skinner than RG3. Daniels’s one read and run game is a real concern for me. I wanted RG3 but I remember that being a concern of mine when he was drafted as well. Daniels does not stay in the pocket and scan the field from what I’ve seen, he doesn’t get to his 2nd or third reads or hit check downs; instead he takes off and runs while taking unnecessary hits at 210 pounds at best. If we take him, I certainly hope I’m wrong about all this but I have a major concern that he will be RG3 in a pro style offense unless the offense we install has zone read in it w/ easy reads/passing concepts. Im with @lavar703 I do not understand why anyone thinks Jayden Daniels has a higher ceiling except that he can be like & is like RG3 as a track/WR style runner in the open field. Daniels played 5 years in college, he, Nix & Penix are far closer to their ceilings than Caleb Williams & Drake Maye just for that reason alone not to mention the later 2 are younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I think Daniels is an elite runner. The one thing I feel is the major question with him is whether he has “pull-away” speed compared to NFL defenders — he certainly has it compared to the NCAA guys. It’s the difference between 4.3 (super elite) speed and 4.50 (really good) speed. The first guy is Lamar/Vick and can run away from most NFL defenders, especially if he has a sliver of a lead on them. The second guy is a really good runner, like Fields or even Ridder, but the speed is not game-breaking and striking fear into opponents. I suspect Daniels will end up in the area of 4.45. I think he seems to get up to top speed very quickly, so that causes the speed to play a little faster still…but I don’t think he’s quite in the Lamar/Vick “lightning in a bottle” category. I do think he’s pretty good (not great) in being elusive and I think he does a nice job of setting guys up for making cuts at high speed. I think he’s an A grade runner, and probably an A+ grade if you’re willing to allow Lamar and Vick to be off the scale. The one major downside is that he does that stupid jump cut thing where he genuinely sets himself up to get planted. In that way, he is like RG3, because it seems as though he’s indifferent to the risk of getting hurt. Which seems cool and valiant, but it hurts the team if he gets hurt and has to leave — which happened multiple times during this past season alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-2024-nfl-drafts-quarterback-class-stable-metrics Another informative article on this year’s QBs. Comparing the so-called “key stable metrics” on all the major draft-eligible passers over the last two years. Maye comes out on top, pretty handily, with Bo Nix checking in second — largely based on his outstanding avoidance of bad plays. Which, to be fair, is probably pretty expected of a 5th-year starter in a highly schemed short passing attack…but he did pretty well in all the metrics. Check out the article for the full breakdown, but the order of the top 8 QBs is below, with Sam Hartman and Jordan Travis breaking into the top 6 party. Drake Maye Bo Nix Jayden Daniels Jordan Travis Sam Hartman Caleb Williams Michael Penix JJ McCarthy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 9 hours ago, Slappy Mc said: Can you guys enlighten me as to how he alienated his teammates and had them revolt against him? I know he is very cringe with his "Let's Ride" and "Go Hawks" shtick, but my understanding is he was well liked and a hard worker. The benching wasn't performance related, they wanted him to void his GTD money on his contract and when he refused they deemed him an injury risk and sat him the rest of the year. He would could 55M towards their cap next year and I can understand not wanting Russell at that price, but 25-30M should be enticing to more people. I know I'm alone in this thought, but bringing in someone like Russell actually helps build that culture. If he can help develop a rookie QB or Sam Howell, I think it's an absolute boon. I think @MikeT14 already responded about the alienation. But I remember seeing teammates yelling at him on the sideline during a game and him being basically isolated from the team. If you consider what the broncos invested, I can't imagine a bigger red flag than them taking a 85 million dollar cap hit to get rid of him. It is shocking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor made Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Just watched Drake Maye vs Miami and unfortunately wasn't that impressed with him this game. He doesn't feel pressure that well here. He can take the hits well though and I don't think he's gonna have any ball security issues, which is good. Alright on the WR screens, but not great on the quicker screens. Attacks the middle of the field and has some hit or miss success there. A mixed bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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