In Flores We Trust - How Good Can This Defense Be?

[skywindO2]

Thinking about early in the offseason when it seemed like they weren't going to Donatell.

In that parallel universe, the Vikings are 1-9 right now. 

[JDBrocks]

we were concerned with giving up big plays before the season, but they’ve done a nice job so far.

[vike daddy]

^^ 0.1 explosive plays per game from being at the top of the league.

yeah, i'd say Flores has done well with containment.

[Ozzy]

On 11/13/2023 at 6:57 AM, SemperFeist said:

It’s like you can’t read. 

You want to make fun of me for being dyslexic, that is fine, would not be the first time.  

 

Coming from someone that did not like him after he was fired from the Dolphins, now all of a sudden everyone likes the guy?  Funny.  Your reasons are hypothetical and you clearly just want to argue because what you say is wrong about defensive coaches.

 

"not a lot of coaches get 2nd chances, especially defensive coaches "

What the hell are you talking about?  Just simply head coaches?  Because that is not true at all, look at Peter Carroll and Bill Belichick, Dennis Allen, Ron Rivera all were head coaches at a team, let go and got another head coaching job later with another team.  And that is not even considering defensive coordinator or position level coaches, many of the defensive head coaches in the league right now are are new to head coaching and you can pretend when they get fired they will never get a HC job again but clearly did not happen to those four I mentioned above.  

 

"connect with the entire team"

Where is your proof to that exactly?  He did not hire quality offensive coordinators at Miami, but then again he is not the GM is he and did not have the final say.  It was more a disconnect from the head coach and GM than a disconnect from Flores to his "offensive" players.  

 

"serious questions about his relationship with offensive players"

Again you are just talking that based on what, an owner not liking the guy and firing him?  Go ask former Dolphin offensive players and see how awful he was to them and how much they hated him.  Is Brian Flores Mike McDaniel?  No but he brings things McDaniel does not and vice versa.    

 

 

If Brian Flores is not a head coach next year it would only be because there are not many open opportunities not because he cannot do the job.  And I did not respond to the lawsuit statement you provided because I do not know enough about it to speak on it. 

Still waiting on this list from you of coaches who are better prepared and better head coaching candidates in the up coming cycle. 

 

 

[swede700]

There's a significant gap between "not a lot" and "none".  You brought up 4...one of whom had to go back to college to resurrect his coaching career, one whose team moved to Baltimore after firing him and then getting the same job that the previous guy mentioned just got fired from (and a disciple of the guy who had brought them to the SB just a few years before), a third who was promoted from within to get his second chance (likely would not have ever been hired anywhere else) and a fourth who had a successful career in his first stop that lasted 9 years and 1 SB appearance. 

Flores does not fit any of those categories...and he has a pending lawsuit against the NFL, which is just a cherry on top.  No one ever gave a QB a true second chance for making the NFL look bad by simply kneeling, you think there's an owner out there just itching to bring in a guy as the face of their franchise who is basically accusing you as part of a conspiracy to discriminate?  

Flores will deserve to get another opportunity to be a HC, but to think that it's going to be <snaps fingers> like that, is not reality.  He has some hurdles to cross...and that doesn't even include being a disciple of one of those 4 who hasn't exactly had a great track record of assistants being successful HCs.   

Edited November 15, 2023 by swede700

[vikingsrule]

1 minute ago, swede700 said:

There's a significant gap between "not a lot" and "none".  You brought up 4...one of whom had to go back to college to resurrect his coaching career, one whose team moved to Baltimore after firing him and then getting the same job that the previous guy mentioned just got fired from, a third who was promoted from within to get his second chance (likely would not have ever been hired anywhere else) and a fourth who had a successful career in his first stop that lasted 9 years and 1 SB appearance. 

Flores does not fit any of those categories...and he has a pending lawsuit against the NFL, which is just a cherry on top.  No one ever gave a QB a true second chance for making the NFL look bad by simply kneeling, you think there's an owner out there just itching to bring in a guy as the face of their franchise who is basically accusing you as part of a conspiracy to discriminate?  

The difference between Flores and Kaep is one is actually good at their job and wasn’t in the process of being demoted. Flores will get another chance, there’s always a handful every year that get canned and Flores has youth on his side. I often forget how young he is, feels like he’s been around forever.

[swede700]

8 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

The difference between Flores and Kaep is one is actually good at their job and wasn’t in the process of being demoted. Flores will get another chance, there’s always a handful every year that get canned and Flores has youth on his side. I often forget how young he is, feels like he’s been around forever.

I never said he won't get another chance, but it's not going to happen just like that.  Time is probably going to play a factor...time where people won't correlate him with the lawsuit.  And a major issue is that it's still pending, so it's not going away anytime soon. 

[RpMc]

For those who are loving Flores as much as me; really good explanation of how the Vikings get to Tampa-2 looks in a variety of different ways through the use of creepers (safe pressures that look like rushing 5 against the run but get to a 4 person rush vs pass), one of our drop 8 menu.  Coverage is Tampa, but you get different players as the pole runner, flat player, and umbrella player.

 

 

[swede700]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

I never said he won't get another chance, but it's not going to happen just like that.  Time is probably going to play a factor...time where people won't correlate him with the lawsuit.  And a major issue is that it's still pending, so it's not going away anytime soon. 

Ultimately, I believe Ben Johnson is going to be the hot name out there this offseason and I'm not sure there's going to be a ton of openings...coupled with the fact that I don't think many of those openings will be attractive to a guy like Flores, still make it highly unlikely he gets one in '24. 

[Cearbhall]

Baring the Vikings having a defensive meltdown in the remainder of the reason, I believe that Flores will be getting consideration for head coaching jobs in the next hiring cycle. I don't know whether he'll land one of them this year, but if he keeps performing at the level he has been performing at it is hard to imagine him not finding a head coaching job in the NFL eventually.

But then again, it would have been hard for me to imagine baseball doing to Pete Rose what they did so maybe I need to open my mind to the possibility that Flores will never get another chance as a head coach.

[swede700]

1 minute ago, Cearbhall said:

But then again, it would have been hard for me to imagine baseball doing to Pete Rose what they did so maybe I need to open my mind to the possibility that Flores will never get another chance as a head coach.

Certainly completely different scenarios, but don't get me started on Rose.  I never cared for him as a person either, but what MLB has done to him is hypocrisy of the highest order.  🤣  I personally believe both he and Shoeless Joe Jackson should be reinstated and enshrined into the HoF where they both belong. 

[vike daddy]

6 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

But then again, it would have been hard for me to imagine baseball doing to Pete Rose what they did so maybe I need to open my mind to the possibility that Flores will never get another chance as a head coach.

i'm in the camp that it will be hard for him to get a head coaching job within the next three years or so.

he certainly has the requisite NFL coaching skills, but if we examine the situation from the billionaire owners' perspective, and they're the population that hires him, i think they'll feel it is either too risky to themselves or showing a lack of support to their business brethren/cabal.

no, it's not fair. but they hold the cards and decide the futures.

[Dolmonite26]

7 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I did not respond to the lawsuit statement you provided because I do not know enough about it to speak on it. 

Yeah this part is kind of the whole thing.

[swede700]

Here is basically an initial list of who Flores could be competing with for a HC job...

 

[SemperFeist]

143 head coaches, not including interim head coaches, have been employed by NFL teams since 2000.

120 of those head coaches have been relieved of their duties.

9 of those head coaches who failed to make the playoffs with their first team got a second chance, and were hired as a head coach again. 

3 head coaches of those coaches have a defensive back ground. All 3 coaches were internal hires.

Edited November 16, 2023 by SemperFeist