Sugashane Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 37 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said: One was an NFL coach. The other a HOF player. One was criticized for not being an X's & O's guy, as is the other. Both are excellent motivators, developers, & recruiters of talent. Both would be a highly scrutinized hire for being "raw-raw" guys. Pete was a culture hire as much as anything else. Prime would be the same. Both brought a struggling program back to relative prominence. Both succeeded everywhere they went in college. No comparison is perfectly aligned, but you'd be hard-pressed to convince me those factors don't make them "remotely close", as you put it. My only concern is the coaching aspects between college and pros is so different. Guys like Carroll and Harbaugh had pro coaching experience before coming to the NFL. I think the last "true" college coach that did well in the NFL was Jimmy Johnson (open to being corrected though, I could 100% have missed someone). Sanders has been a college only coach even if he had a ridiculous career in the league. I won't say for certain he would fail, just the odds are slimmer than someone who has at least been a positional coach at the pros succeeding. As far as to the original question, I would actually like to see whether Bill would take a reduction role. Either be a coach or be a GM. Right now he is the GM, HC, and DC I believe? That is a hell of a lot to do, each one of those roles is loaded with tasks (assuming you're also the playcaller on defense too). Multitasking WILL result in a lower efficiency at some point and I think that just has been where Bill is getting wrecked. That is just my idea as an outside through. I think next year it would be best if he took a step back. Something I commented on a day or two ago for NE next year would be to enter into 2024 with: GM - Belichick HC - Flores OC - McDaniels DC - Mayo His sons Brian and Stephen probably move into more significant roles as Mayo moves up too. That would appease him a bit more at least and since all the primary staff are is own disciples - and you know damn good and well Bill won't be hiding in the top boxes or an office - the organization could still run the same way for the most part. I really thing that would step up the entire team and Bill getting to focus on being the GM would let him do better there. He wouldn't be spending so much time scouting opposing teams, setting up the practices, etc and would get to focus on building the team. Flores did well in MIA and I think would bring the edge and energy that Bill is lacking right now. McDaniels has historically been a much better OC than HC (maybe he gets Mac back on track or they go with a better young prospect) and Mayo is a guy that I think has a bright future as a HC someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Pete Carroll doesn't come across as a retire type. He'll do something. Bill comes across as a retire to Florida get a nice fishing boat and sit in the sea with nobody bothing you except maybe a couple of invited friends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 6 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said: He isn’t on the hot seat. How? How is he not? You say it so definitively it's like you know what Kraft is thinking. Belichick is under siege from the media every week, fans have largely turned on him, he's coming off the worst games of his career in two consecutive blowouts in what was supposed to be year 3/4 of a rebuild. The Athletic literally came out and said that Kraft is open to firing him (oh, sure - that reporter doesn't know Kraft, you know Kraft). What more proof do you want that his seat is hotter than it's been - other than Kraft literally driving to your house and telling you "Belichick is on the hot seat, my man." Even if you're part of a contingent that thinks "he won't be fired, but he'll be asked to step down!" how is that not the same thing? How do you think Kraft doesn't want a major change and wouldn't demand a major change or significant shakeup if results continue like this? How is that not the definition of "hot seat?" Look, nobody's saying he's a bad coach (at least, I'm not) but I don't see how anyone could say he's 100% safe at this point. Oh sure, the media says he's on the hot seat, the fans are calling for his head or expressing hope that he'll step down or completely give up GM duties (in other words being tactfully fired as GM) - but that doesn't mean anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Bill will step down after the season if it continues this poorly. He will not be fired, Kraft and Patriots were nothing before he got there. 6 SB is 6 SB. Don't care who people believe was more responsible Tom, Bill doesn't matter. Kraft has made Billions over the last 20 years. Belichick is not on the hotseat after 2 potential sub .500 seasons. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 39 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said: Bill will step down after the season if it continues this poorly. He will not be fired, Kraft and Patriots were nothing before he got there. 6 SB is 6 SB. Don't care who people believe was more responsible Tom, Bill doesn't matter. Kraft has made Billions over the last 20 years. Belichick is not on the hotseat after 2 potential sub .500 seasons. Step down at whose behest? His own, or Kraft's? This is just nuts. Kraft is a businessman, he's not sentimental. He sees disgruntled fans and an embarrassing product on the field. He's been public about his lament for the lack of postseason wins since Brady left - he's not going to just let Belichick lose in perpetuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 21 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said: I’d like to address all those who clowned me every year for hypothetically asking if Belichick could ever be on the “hot seat” if he kept losing. ”Noooo that would never happen BB could have ten straight losing seasons and Kraft would neeeeever dream of firing him!!!!” Still think so? I think you were being clowned for asking it every single year, not that it didn’t have veracity. to answer it, I still think so, yeah. I think Kraft doesn’t want to be the one to fire him. a “mutual agreement” however….hmmm… but I do also think it’s a “be careful what you wish for” scenario potentially 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 15 hours ago, Sugashane said: My only concern is the coaching aspects between college and pros is so different. Guys like Carroll and Harbaugh had pro coaching experience before coming to the NFL. I think the last "true" college coach that did well in the NFL was Jimmy Johnson (open to being corrected though, I could 100% have missed someone). Sanders has been a college only coach even if he had a ridiculous career in the league. I won't say for certain he would fail, just the odds are slimmer than someone who has at least been a positional coach at the pros succeeding. As far as to the original question, I would actually like to see whether Bill would take a reduction role. Either be a coach or be a GM. Right now he is the GM, HC, and DC I believe? That is a hell of a lot to do, each one of those roles is loaded with tasks (assuming you're also the playcaller on defense too). Multitasking WILL result in a lower efficiency at some point and I think that just has been where Bill is getting wrecked. That is just my idea as an outside through. I think next year it would be best if he took a step back. Something I commented on a day or two ago for NE next year would be to enter into 2024 with: GM - Belichick HC - Flores OC - McDaniels DC - Mayo His sons Brian and Stephen probably move into more significant roles as Mayo moves up too. That would appease him a bit more at least and since all the primary staff are is own disciples - and you know damn good and well Bill won't be hiding in the top boxes or an office - the organization could still run the same way for the most part. I really thing that would step up the entire team and Bill getting to focus on being the GM would let him do better there. He wouldn't be spending so much time scouting opposing teams, setting up the practices, etc and would get to focus on building the team. Flores did well in MIA and I think would bring the edge and energy that Bill is lacking right now. McDaniels has historically been a much better OC than HC (maybe he gets Mac back on track or they go with a better young prospect) and Mayo is a guy that I think has a bright future as a HC someday. This is another issue. All of those guys you mention, his sons, Mayo etc are obviously BB guys. If he is fired, they probably go with him or at the very least, what even are they without him? Mayo is still raw. BB is holding his hand calling plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 15 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: This is another issue. All of those guys you mention, his sons, Mayo etc are obviously BB guys. If he is fired, they probably go with him or at the very least, what even are they without him? Mayo is still raw. BB is holding his hand calling plays. Ah, I was just implying what could be done if Bill is NOT fired. If he is fired then you basically need to just clean house. Hire a HC/GM combo and let them fill the staff as they see. I could definitely see Florio still coming back as a HC but I think if Bill is gone then all his staff goes too unless the new regime wants to keep someone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJerseypaint Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 14 hours ago, Trojan said: Pete Carroll doesn't come across as a retire type. He'll do something. Bill comes across as a retire to Florida get a nice fishing boat and sit in the sea with nobody bothing you except maybe a couple of invited friends. I always pegged him as a "disappear into the upper northeast, buy a cabin, and go ice fishing in a hoodie"-type guy. Like Mark Wahlberg in Shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 7 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said: Step down at whose behest? His own, or Kraft's? This is just nuts. Kraft is a businessman, he's not sentimental. He sees disgruntled fans and an embarrassing product on the field. He's been public about his lament for the lack of postseason wins since Brady left - he's not going to just let Belichick lose in perpetuity. The fact people like you think this after 20 years of absolute Dominance, is mind-boggling to me. We have Organizations in 20 year Purgatory of not winning a GD playoff game and you honestly believe Kraft would fire/tell Bill retire after (2 sub .500) season? TWO? You're on Crack. Fans being upset because they are spoiled from Bills Tenure, will have to endure until Bill is ready, which is soon. Sorry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 7 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: The fact people like you think this after 20 years of absolute Dominance, is mind-boggling to me. We have Organizations in 20 year Purgatory of not winning a GD playoff game and you honestly believe Kraft would fire/tell Bill retire after (2 sub .500) season? TWO? You're on Crack. Fans being upset because they are spoiled from Bills Tenure, will have to endure until Bill is ready, which is soon. Sorry First, I'm not even a Pats fan. What we do have in this thread are Pats fans talking about a "mutual agreement." What do you think that means and why might such an agreement be made? If the result is "Belichick is no longer HC" then what does it matter whether he was specifically fired in those words or not? Second, it's not about the two sub .500 seasons - it's essentially the entire post-Brady era. Why do I say this? Because the 2021 season was not seen as a big success by Kraft. He was public about it - simply making the playoffs and immediately getting blown out isn't the goal. This is year 3 of Mac and the entire operation smacks of regression. BB can coach up the defense as well as anyone (useful as that is in today's offensive era) but he's built a shoddy roster. Even the special team unit sucks. Kraft is not going to wait for the next Brady to come around and revive this offense. You said yourself Bill will step down after this year. Why? Could you elaborate on that? This is just an argument on semantics, nothing more. "He'd NEVER be fired! Never! But he'll willingly step down this year if results continue to be bad." Um... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboRocket Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 On 10/11/2023 at 9:14 PM, jrry32 said: I don't know what it is, but McVay seems to have Pete Carroll's number. Conversely, Kyle Shanahan has McVay's number. It's very weird. But all three of them have the Cardinals' number. Seems pretty normal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 On 10/12/2023 at 5:16 PM, Nabbs4u said: The fact people like you think this after 20 years of absolute Dominance, is mind-boggling to me. We have Organizations in 20 year Purgatory of not winning a GD playoff game and you honestly believe Kraft would fire/tell Bill retire after (2 sub .500) season? TWO? You're on Crack. Fans being upset because they are spoiled from Bills Tenure, will have to endure until Bill is ready, which is soon. Sorry What if they lose to the Jets though? That may be the last straw… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malak1 Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 On 10/11/2023 at 4:36 PM, notthatbluestuff said: I’d like to address all those who clowned me every year for hypothetically asking if Belichick could ever be on the “hot seat” if he kept losing. ”Noooo that would never happen BB could have ten straight losing seasons and Kraft would neeeeever dream of firing him!!!!” Still think so? Do you think he’s currently on the hot seat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 31 minutes ago, malak1 said: Do you think he’s currently on the hot seat? Of course he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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