GDT: LA Rams (3-4) @ Dallas Cowboys (4-2)

[DaBoys]

4 minutes ago, textaz03 said:

Cooper Rush time. Dak is pulled 

I knew Dak would get benched this game. What a bum!

[textaz03]

Cart coming out for Cousins. Looks like he popped an Achilles 

Edited October 29, 2023 by textaz03

[Dallas94Ware]

4 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Mazi is worthless 

I've said it here since 2013 or so with the Shariff Floyd debate. Big fat guys in the middle don't solve weakness against the run, not in today's NFL. It can HELP by freeing up linebackers, but ultimately it's linebacker play that helps more against the run. Too much zone running in the NFL today. Making it much easier to not have a fat, albeit strong, nose tackle who's slow off the snap to have no impact on the run game. And when the run comes their way, splitting a center and guard has more to do with explosiveness and technique than how heavy and massive the nose is.

Mazi has a role for this team. And it could very well be a valuable one. Just not a first round value one. Especially when Bergeron was there and LEVIS!! Who has played absurdly well and looked like Tannehill is never taking another snap in Tennessee ever again.

[NoFlyZone]

5 minutes ago, textaz03 said:

Cart coming out for Cousins. Looks like he popped an Achilles 

Brutal for him and that team. Dude had MVP numbers and was killing it. Their season is likely over.

[textaz03]

1 minute ago, Dallas94Ware said:

I've said it here since 2013 or so with the Shariff Floyd debate. Big fat guys in the middle don't solve weakness against the run, not in today's NFL. It can HELP by freeing up linebackers, but ultimately it's linebacker play that helps more against the run. Too much zone running in the NFL today. Making it much easier to not have a fat, albeit strong, nose tackle who's slow off the snap to have no impact on the run game. And when the run comes their way, splitting a center and guard has more to do with explosiveness and technique than how heavy and massive the nose is.

Mazi has a role for this team. And it could very well be a valuable one. Just not a first round value one. Especially when Bergeron was there and LEVIS!! Who has played absurdly well and looked like Tannehill is never taking another snap in Tennessee ever again.

We were never taking Levis with Dak on the roster. Highest we probably would have taken a QB was 4th round

[Dallas94Ware]

2 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said:

Brutal for him and that team. Dude had MVP numbers and was killing it. Their season is likely over.

He actually led the league in TD passes going into the week and Jordan Addison looks like the second coming of his own teammate, Justin Jefferson. Could you imagine Cousins throwing to both of them all year?

Now, it's likely Cousins never throws to either of them ever again.

[DaBoys]

1 minute ago, textaz03 said:

We were never taking Levis with Dak on the roster. Highest we probably would have taken a QB was 4th round

Which is a terrible approach. When a 1st round QB lands in your lap you take him. Patriots draft JimmG with Thomas Brady on the roster. Even if hes not YOUR QB you can trade him easily for profit 

[Dallas94Ware]

1 minute ago, textaz03 said:

We were never taking Levis with Dak on the roster. Highest we probably would have taken a QB was 4th round

Which is straight sad. When a guy who could have went #1 to #4 and no one would have batted an eye falls to you in the mid to late 20s, you TAKE Him regardless of position.

If it's a QB, you sort that out later. Does he beat out Dak as a rookie? Prolly no. Sophomore? Maybe but doubtful. But with Daks contract and lack of playoff wins, you take the gamble. If anything you trade a guy. But these are the decisions that kill this team. 

Best case? He replaced Dak in a year or two for much cheaper and upgraded the spot 

Worst case? You took a chance at doing so and lit a fire under Dak's rear, he balls out MVP style. And we now have to choose who gets traded or if Dak is worth paying when Levis is waiting. 

It's not a bad position to be in

[NoFlyZone]

5 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

He actually led the league in TD passes going into the week and Jordan Addison looks like the second coming of his own teammate, Justin Jefferson. Could you imagine Cousins throwing to both of them all year?

Now, it's likely Cousins never throws to either of them ever again.

That team would be laughably stupid and incompetent to not bring him back.

[DaBoys]

13 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said:

That team would be laughably stupid and incompetent to not bring him back.

I think this is the last year on his contract and he turns 36 next August. As you can see… the body does start to break down at this age. I don’t think it’s a horrible idea to try to bring him back cheaply but Kirk Cousins has historically been on the winning side of contracts. So I have my doubts he lets them off the hook now. Idk… it’s not a no brainer. Especially if they can’t win anymore games this season. Now they’re in position for Drake Maye or Caleb Williams. There’s a good chance ol Kirko is gone. 

[NoFlyZone]

3 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

I think this is the last year on his contract and he turns 36 next August. As you can see… the body does start to break down at this age. I don’t think it’s a horrible idea to try to bring him back cheaply but Kirk Cousins has historically been on the winning side of contracts. So I have my doubts he lets them off the hook now. Idk… it’s not a no brainer. Especially if they can’t win anymore games this season. Now they’re in position for Drake Maye or Caleb Williams. There’s a good chance ol Kirko is gone. 

I don’t know what their cap situation is. Kirk hasn’t otherwise shown any signs of breakdown. He was playing his best football. He gives that team their best chance, and they are finally coming around a bit on defense. If cap allows you absolutely get a deal done. 

[DaBoys]

15 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said:

I don’t know what their cap situation is. Kirk hasn’t otherwise shown any signs of breakdown. He was playing his best football. He gives that team their best chance, and they are finally coming around a bit on defense. If cap allows you absolutely get a deal done. 

Fair enough 

[matt79511]

Cousins had such an impressive iron man streak too, especially for a guy with a meager physical profile. I thought he was indestructible.

A shame. Poor Vikings.

[Tony7188]

1 hour ago, Dallas94Ware said:

I've said it here since 2013 or so with the Shariff Floyd debate. Big fat guys in the middle don't solve weakness against the run, not in today's NFL. It can HELP by freeing up linebackers, but ultimately it's linebacker play that helps more against the run. Too much zone running in the NFL today. Making it much easier to not have a fat, albeit strong, nose tackle who's slow off the snap to have no impact on the run game. And when the run comes their way, splitting a center and guard has more to do with explosiveness and technique than how heavy and massive the nose is.

Mazi has a role for this team. And it could very well be a valuable one. Just not a first round value one. Especially when Bergeron was there and LEVIS!! Who has played absurdly well and looked like Tannehill is never taking another snap in Tennessee ever again.

I still believe a big, athletic nose tackle is worthy of a first round pick. Vita Vea was worthy of a 1st round pick. So was Bryan Breese. Their college stats matched what was on tape and you could see his athletic ability at the Combine.
 

Mazi skipped the combine and had no production in college. He was not worthy of a 1st round pick but the Cowboys picked him anyway because of “need”. They still counted on Tyron Smith even though his injury history says otherwise. Terrible.

 

[Dallas94Ware]

2 hours ago, Tony7188 said:

I still believe a big, athletic nose tackle is worthy of a first round pick. Vita Vea was worthy of a 1st round pick. So was Bryan Breese. Their college stats matched what was on tape and you could see his athletic ability at the Combine.
 

Mazi skipped the combine and had no production in college. He was not worthy of a 1st round pick but the Cowboys picked him anyway because of “need”. They still counted on Tyron Smith even though his injury history says otherwise. Terrible.

 

I'm not saying a big athletic nose isn't worthy of a first round pick! I'm with you on that - they definitely are worth it

I'm saying a nose is no longer the solution in the modern NFL to struggles against the run.

An athletic defensive tackle or nose tackle capable of penetrating the interior pocket with consistency AS WELL AS keeping the linebackers clean in the run game and assisting in the run game by redirecting runs or making the stop themself is certainly worth a quality selection.

But therein lies the problem...

Mazi is not that athletic, penetrating, pocket disrupting, run redirecting, block eating, offensive gameplan destroying nose player.

He is large and he is strong. He can certainly at times cause a run to be redirected when he positions himself correctly and, even if not splitting the interior blocking, disrupt running lanes. But he is slow off the snap, has never - at this level or in college - displayed the explosion off the block or through the dual blocks to force a QB to rush a throw or move and re-set his feet. He does take two blockers, but any nose guard does that, that is the position. The idea of a good nose is that when facing the center and guard, they are capable of splitting between them to make  back field stop or put significant pressure on the passer.

Vea is capable of all of that. He frequently beats the offense to the point of attack in the run game and splits the blocks to interfere with the run or make the stop; he frequently gains leverage on the center to shed engagement and assist in stopping the runner. Against the pass, he has enough burst despite his size, to engage quickly and either split the blockers or force them further  into the pocket, disrupting the QBs pocket and clogging the passing lane. He essentially aids the defense against the run and the pass.

There aren't many nose tackles capable of this. And that's fine. The game has changed a lot. The days of William Perry shutting down run games just by taking up three possible run lanes with size and power are just too far in the past. That isn't saying players like that don't still exist, and that there isn't still value to them. But that value in today's NFL is just so heavily diminished to what it was up to the early and mid 2000s.

But to mention Vea as you did. Of course players like him are worth a quality pick. Because players like him don't just erase running lanes with size and power, they assist the defense in many ways and force a coordinator to gameplan around that players ability on the inside.

You aren't getting that kind of play out of Mazi Smith. He didn't show it in college, has yet to show it at this level, and the team knowingly selected him anyway, chasing a solution to the defense allowing, specifically, too many third down conversions up the middle and likely to help combat Phillys Hurts sneak. But in selecting him, they passed on better players, at positions of lesser need sure, but better players period.

The team needed a nose. It needed help in that role and it needed it badly. But not at the cost of the players it passed on, because it isn't like the role Mazi fills is exactly what it was in 1983, or 1993, or even 2003. Nope. Here in 2023, you stop the run with speed at linebacker and athleticism on the DL. Not mass. There's a reason Mike Shannahan's zone blocking schemes created 1000 yard rushers out of nobodies like Reuban Droughns, because it eliminates those bulky interior guys from disrupting the run game. And that blocking style now accounts for a hefty chunk of all run plays in every play book around the league.

In today's NFL, there isn't anymore "this is a west Coast system", 'this is a power run system's 'we run a zone run system' .... everyone runs a bit of everything. Everyone has zone runs and power runs on their playsheet and in their playbook. Everyone has spread concepts, and west Coast concepts. Just as every defense has cover 2, and cover 3, and zone blitz concepts and man blitz concepts, every defense runs an odd and an even front just in different fashions, just a matter of how they align their linebackers, all in an attempt to get the pros of both a 43 and a 34 into their playbook.

If you're a UFC fan, think of it like this. Back in the day. It was ALWAYS a clear cut matchup of Jiu Jitsu vs Boxing. Wrestling vs Muay Thai. Judo vs Sambo. Etc. But now everyone practices everything, everyone knows and does a bit of every style and has it all in their repertoire to limit weaknesses. Sure, some guys (teams) have different strengths. But everyone knows everything now, so it's truly mixed martial artists now. Same with football. Making those big massive nose guys eliminating isolation runs and messing up power run schemes and clogging up trap block lanes a lot less useful.

But guys like Vea? Absolutely worth their value 

Sorry for the long response. I had a lot to say on the subject and a lot of free time before SNF 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Dallas94Ware