Browns QB situation can be fixed easily

[Nastradamus]

23 hours ago, lancerman said:

The Browns are under the spell of a horrible lie that because getting a QB high is risky they should never try for one because they will not have the pieces around him for him to succeed. So they should only take reaches like Manziel and Kizer later in the draft and maybe hope someone falls into their lap in free agency.

Until they realize that a guy like Watson, Goff or Wentz would have drastically covered up some of their deficiencies while they built everything else up, they won't get anywhere. Maybe they someday will have someone with a brain who can build a good team, but then they'll be in the purgatory the Texans were without being able to find a QB to compliment a pretty good team. Only unfortunately the Browns won't be lucky enough to have a team as inept as them to pass on a guy like Watson and let him fall that far.

People keep pushing this silly narrative. That was at most 1/3 of their decision to trade down. The reasons the Browns haven't taken a QB under Moneyball(and they should have finished out the process, as they can easily be the Astros) is that QB is over valued, draft picks are under valued and they want to build the team up and THEN add the QB, so he enters a situation like Dak, Wentz, Watson or Russell Wilson. That's why they have built up one of the better OLs in the game, drafted some interesting first round pass catchers in Coleman and Njoku and kept Gordon around. Duke Johnson is also one of the best receiving backs in the game. 

Available to them this year will be Darnold,Rosen,Jackson,ALlen and Mayfield in the draft, all with potential to go first round, as well as Cousins on the FA market or Mccarron in a trade again. They could also explore guys like Alex Smith and Sam Bradford as short term options who would be huge upgrades on what they've had. They have 2 probable top 10 picks to go after these QBs, 3 2nds and 100 million freakin' dollars in cap space to play with. 

[Dashing202]

Kirk cousins will be a browns .

 

[tom cody]

I wonder if the Browns go QB this draft as well, I mean eventually they have to pick a QB that is going to work out for them don't they?

[CKSteeler]

2 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

People keep pushing this silly narrative. That was at most 1/3 of their decision to trade down. The reasons the Browns haven't taken a QB under Moneyball(and they should have finished out the process, as they can easily be the Astros) is that QB is over valued, draft picks are under valued and they want to build the team up and THEN add the QB, so he enters a situation like Dak, Wentz, Watson or Russell Wilson. That's why they have built up one of the better OLs in the game, drafted some interesting first round pass catchers in Coleman and Njoku and kept Gordon around. Duke Johnson is also one of the best receiving backs in the game. 

Available to them this year will be Darnold,Rosen,Jackson,ALlen and Mayfield in the draft, all with potential to go first round, as well as Cousins on the FA market or Mccarron in a trade again. They could also explore guys like Alex Smith and Sam Bradford as short term options who would be huge upgrades on what they've had. They have 2 probable top 10 picks to go after these QBs, 3 2nds and 100 million freakin' dollars in cap space to play with. 

By what measure do the Browns have one of the better OL's in the game? They've given up 39 sacks. They're below average in yards. They had some talent on that front and this FO dismantled it so they could have massive amounts of cap space go unused. We've had two drafts where they've taken 3 OL with only Shon Coleman in the third round even approaching a premium draft pick. None higher than the 3rd round. Joe Thomas was openly questioning their decision to let his linemates walk just last year. So, they let one young RT walk to replace him with a draft pick, and then signed a high priced guard to make up for letting Mack walk. Where's the progress?

You say that they view QB as an overrated position, which is kind of laughable. The braintrust there decided to make their very first draft choice a WR of all positions. What's the moneyball rationale for that decision? Is there a more overrated position on the field than WR? And they didn't even pick some stud despite using that pick in the top 3rd of the draft. They have a disappointment.

[lancerman]

2 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

People keep pushing this silly narrative. That was at most 1/3 of their decision to trade down. The reasons the Browns haven't taken a QB under Moneyball(and they should have finished out the process, as they can easily be the Astros) is that QB is over valued, draft picks are under valued and they want to build the team up and THEN add the QB, so he enters a situation like Dak, Wentz, Watson or Russell Wilson. That's why they have built up one of the better OLs in the game, drafted some interesting first round pass catchers in Coleman and Njoku and kept Gordon around. Duke Johnson is also one of the best receiving backs in the game. 

Available to them this year will be Darnold,Rosen,Jackson,ALlen and Mayfield in the draft, all with potential to go first round, as well as Cousins on the FA market or Mccarron in a trade again. They could also explore guys like Alex Smith and Sam Bradford as short term options who would be huge upgrades on what they've had. They have 2 probable top 10 picks to go after these QBs, 3 2nds and 100 million freakin' dollars in cap space to play with. 

Stopped reading at "QB is overvalued and draft picks are under valued" 

[everlong]

2 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

People keep pushing this silly narrative. That was at most 1/3 of their decision to trade down. The reasons the Browns haven't taken a QB under Moneyball(and they should have finished out the process, as they can easily be the Astros) is that QB is over valued, draft picks are under valued and they want to build the team up and THEN add the QB, so he enters a situation like Dak, Wentz, Watson or Russell Wilson. That's why they have built up one of the better OLs in the game, drafted some interesting first round pass catchers in Coleman and Njoku and kept Gordon around. Duke Johnson is also one of the best receiving backs in the game. 

Available to them this year will be Darnold,Rosen,Jackson,ALlen and Mayfield in the draft, all with potential to go first round, as well as Cousins on the FA market or Mccarron in a trade again. They could also explore guys like Alex Smith and Sam Bradford as short term options who would be huge upgrades on what they've had. They have 2 probable top 10 picks to go after these QBs, 3 2nds and 100 million freakin' dollars in cap space to play with. 

Just like the Lions and Matt Stafford? Considering this is the Browns, by the time they get their QB those pieces will leave via FA.

[everlong]

Cleveland gets all the blame for not taking Watson because SF, Chicago and KC actually addressed their need at QB.

[everlong]

1 minute ago, tonyto36 said:

And how much have the Lions accomplished with Stafford and poor OLs/defenses exactly...?

Uh, not be a dumpster fire like Browns? I think Browns fans would kill to have the relative success the Lions have had under Stafford.

[CKSteeler]

20 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

And how much have the Lions accomplished with Stafford and poor OLs/defenses exactly...?

Well when you have guys like Kizer/Crowell out there, it's no surprise the offense drags down and everyone looks worse.   The Browns definitely have talent on the OL.  

Give a young QB the Cowboys OL instead of throwing them into the fire and ruining them.  How many young QBs have we seen ruined by injuries/poor development because of trash OLs?  Heck, even Andrew Luck, arguably the greatest QB prospect of all time has essentially had his career ruined by the Colts defense/OL.   I'd take Dak and the Cowboys OL over Luck and the Colts OL every single time.  

I don't think saying QB is overvalued is that crazy.  What good has (again) Andrew Luck done without help?  Even Brady couldn't carry a bad defense and no OL to a championship - though he has come close a couple times.  I think a lot of QBs in the NFL are capable of MVP calibre campaigns with the right situation.  Dalton, Flacco, Wentz, Newton, Keenum, Smith, Ben, Rivers, Mariota, Luck, Dak and so on and so on. They all are capable of looking like monsters with capable OL's and weapons.   They all also have looked awful in less than ideal conditions.  Only Brady and Rodgers are capable of really flourishing anywhere.   

1. Stafford was pretty inconsistent and mistake prone until a few years ago, and he still made the Lions relevant at different points.

2. You once again want to mention this OL thing when no one around the league is looking around and marveling at what the Browns have done with theirs. Far from it, defenses lick their chops when they play the Browns because its sack padding time.

3. The Cowboys didn't take that long to build their OL. They invested resources over two seasons. The Browns haven't coherently worked to build anything, besides perhaps their DL.

4. Luck took his on playoff runs. Drafting him didn't prevent them from building an OL in front of him. An awful GM who made poor choices did that.

5. Your grouping of QB's is most definitely ridiculous and tells me you struggle to evaluate the position. Rivers has consistently kept the Chargers competitive almost by himself. Roethlisberger has never had a losing season and likely would have made the playoffs a few more times with changeover if not for his own injuries. He won a ring with one of the worst supporting casts on offense anyone will ever see, particularly the OL and RB's. Dalton has never been able to get out of the wild card despite having top tier rosters. Smith has been gifted very talented teams and underachieved with them both individually and collectively. We saw how quickly he sputtered out this year after his hot start. The young QB's you mention are guys who have not shown the ability to string together anything consistently. I mean, we have little clue how Dak is going to adjust.

Russell Wilson is not even mentioned. The guy is carrying his entire offense on his back with an awful OL and a ragtag group of targets.

There is, quite clearly, no position on the field that offers more value than QB. There is no position where demand so far exceeds supply. And you're here telling us how brilliant the Browns are for passing on legit prospects.

The NFL does not require five year plans to turn teams around. Even when said teams are the Browns.

[ET80]

On 12/9/2017 at 12:29 AM, vike daddy said:

Teddy's a polite guy. there are 32 NFL teams. after his draft Teddy only mentioned one qb needy team he said he was glad he didn't go to.

Cleveland.

 

think he's more interested in them now...?

I say yes. 

When Teddy first said that, he was one of the top 32 prospects in the draft, and arguably the best QB of the group. Now, he's two years removed from playing a meaningful snap and still a question mark in terms of health.

Teddy isn't the same commodity anymore, so he shouldn't be discounting any opportunity to a starting job.

[jrry32]

6 hours ago, iPwn said:

They already tried listening to a homeless guy.

I have an apartment. That's close enough.

[DawgX]

3 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

By what measure do the Browns have one of the better OL's in the game? They've given up 39 sacks. They're below average in yards. They had some talent on that front and this FO dismantled it so they could have massive amounts of cap space go unused. We've had two drafts where they've taken 3 OL with only Shon Coleman in the third round even approaching a premium draft pick. None higher than the 3rd round. Joe Thomas was openly questioning their decision to let his linemates walk just last year. So, they let one young RT walk to replace him with a draft pick, and then signed a high priced guard to make up for letting Mack walk. Where's the progress?

You say that they view QB as an overrated position, which is kind of laughable. The braintrust there decided to make their very first draft choice a WR of all positions. What's the moneyball rationale for that decision? Is there a more overrated position on the field than WR? And they didn't even pick some stud despite using that pick in the top 3rd of the draft. They have a disappointment.

The majority of those sacks have occurred because Kizer holds onto the ball for way too long. He was especially guilty of that at the start of the season.

They should have resigned Schwartz, but Coleman has developed into a solid starter. Mack wanted out of Cleveland. This offensive line is one of the best with a healthy Joe Thomas. Why would they need to spend an early pick on OL when they had JT, Bitonio and signed Tretter and Zeitler? 

[Iamcanadian]

12 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

People keep pushing this silly narrative. That was at most 1/3 of their decision to trade down. The reasons the Browns haven't taken a QB under Moneyball(and they should have finished out the process, as they can easily be the Astros) is that QB is over valued, draft picks are under valued and they want to build the team up and THEN add the QB, so he enters a situation like Dak, Wentz, Watson or Russell Wilson. That's why they have built up one of the better OLs in the game, drafted some interesting first round pass catchers in Coleman and Njoku and kept Gordon around. Duke Johnson is also one of the best receiving backs in the game. 

Available to them this year will be Darnold,Rosen,Jackson,ALlen and Mayfield in the draft, all with potential to go first round, as well as Cousins on the FA market or Mccarron in a trade again. They could also explore guys like Alex Smith and Sam Bradford as short term options who would be huge upgrades on what they've had. They have 2 probable top 10 picks to go after these QBs, 3 2nds and 100 million freakin' dollars in cap space to play with. 

"QB is overvaled" = utter rubbish IMO, QB is clearly the most important position on a football team if you want to win football games in the NFL with any type of consistency.

The reason Sashi got fired was simple, his ability to spot talent was under extreme question, using Moneyball. Moneyball told him Wentz and Watson could not be franchise QB's and now Trubisky is showing signs of being a franchise QB as well.

Analytics is a drafting tool which accounts for around 15 to 20% of a team's decision on who to draft. It still takes the other 80 to 85% to assess talent and Sashi simply failed in that area. Garrett, the #1 overall last year hardly required Analytics to draft him and even though it was a solid draft year  and Cleveland picked first in every round, where are the impact players that he added to the team over the last 2 drafts???

He wasted a 2nd round pick on Kizer who will never be a franchise QB and his 2 year record is going to be a NFL record, 1-31. You should know better Nastradamus, being a Lion's fan when Matt Millen ran the draft, that this is simply unacceptable. Cleveland's schedule is pretty easy and considering ever team they play feels they just have to show up to get a win, should bring at least a couple of upsets Cleveland's way, but they are so lacking in talent, that they cannot even do that and you just know, that the Brown's players are trying desperately to at least win one game, so they don't have to face friends and family with questions about a winless season!!!!

[Nastradamus]

29 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

"QB is overvaled" = utter rubbish IMO, QB is clearly the most important position on a football team if you want to win football games in the NFL with any type of consistency.

The reason Sashi got fired was simple, his ability to spot talent was under extreme question, using Moneyball. Moneyball told him Wentz and Watson could not be franchise QB's and now Trubisky is showing signs of being a franchise QB as well.

Analytics is a drafting tool which accounts for around 15 to 20% of a team's decision on who to draft. It still takes the other 80 to 85% to assess talent and Sashi simply failed in that area. Garrett, the #1 overall last year hardly required Analytics to draft him and even though it was a solid draft year  and Cleveland picked first in every round, where are the impact players that he added to the team over the last 2 drafts???

He wasted a 2nd round pick on Kizer who will never be a franchise QB and his 2 year record is going to be a NFL record, 1-31. You should know better Nastradamus, being a Lion's fan when Matt Millen ran the draft, that this is simply unacceptable. Cleveland's schedule is pretty easy and considering ever team they play feels they just have to show up to get a win, should bring at least a couple of upsets Cleveland's way, but they are so lacking in talent, that they cannot even do that and you just know, that the Brown's players are trying desperately to at least win one game, so they don't have to face friends and family with questions about a winless season!!!!

Of course its the most important player by far, but its also 1/22 of your starting lineup. I also believe there is high supply right now. Kizer doesn't need to be a franchise QB to not be a 2nd round bust and if QB is really your most valued position, I can't imagine hating that value. He'll clearly never be the answer, but if you find Blake Bortles at 53rd overall instead of 3rd overall, its quite a different situation. I mean, Kizer will probably start 50-100 games in his life. 

The Browns absolutely need a QB to win a significant amount of games in this league, but they also shouldn't be afraid to trade the 1st pick for a haul again if offered IMO, though I do think Darnold is special, so the haul would probably have to be even more than in past years. 

Good seeing you around again IAC

[Thomas5737]

First, who is Jim Couch OP?

Second, Trubisky was pretty much seen as the best QB in the draft last year, if you are going to blame the Browns for not selecting a specific QB in 2017 it should be him and not the 3rd QB to come off of the board.

Third, the Browns (at least with Hue) wouldn't want anything to do with Bridgewater. He is a similar player to Kessler and he was a healthy inactive. You have to have an arm for Hue to play you, Teddy isn't a down the field thrower.

Fourth, I'm not saying the Browns have great talent, they are pretty young so it's mostly we'll see but how would any other team do with a QB who has 9 TD, 17 INT and 8 fumbles? That is after having a career game today in which he still handed the opposition the win.