incognito_man Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: It's 2.70 without defensive and ST TDs I said in my post, 2021 playoff game is a performance good enough to keep Barry's job, he didn't have anything in the neighborhood of that last night. Let's also not ignore the magnitude of defensive talent he had. They put the starters back in that game and Dallas marched right down the field again and scored. Let's not ignore that Joe Barry's defense with a lead in the 4th has been horrendous for 2 years. He's been far better in the playoffs than regular season, but we have no championships in his tenure so not even to ignore downright bad regular seasons. No disagreement on any of this. LIS, I think it's an upgradeable position. I liked our playoff defensive style a lot more than regular season. Only people inside the building know where much of that is coming from. If MLF was the impetus for the post season changes, he should find someone else. If Barry was the reason, his track record in post season play is encouraging. I think between MLF and Barry they handled the Jaire whine-fest well. I don't default side with Jaire at ALL in that situation. I think he's more to blame than Barry ever was. Not at all convinced Barry ever "lost the locker room" or whatever. I think it's more likely Jaire overestimates his support from his teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 39 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: SF this year scored right on their average points per drive. We shortened the game tremendously with our long TOP eating drives, just like we did to KC. We held their offense to their average production per drive, they just had less of them. SF in 2019 was an all-star squad vs an injured Jimmy G. Like if you have 4 top 40 pass rushers, 3 corners capable of playing at a Pro Bowl level, your ILB voted All Pro and Kenny Clark and you can't stop 75% healthy Jimmy G (benched this year for Aiden O'Connell) oof. He stopped playoff Dak. A QB with a career 91 QBR in the playoffs and we held him to 89 QBR. Joe Barry has certainly been better in the playoffs than regular season, but he hasn't come close (save for the 2019 all star team) to putting up a singular performance worthy of looking past the 27th ranked defense in the regular season. Our team ultimately played the 49ers this week instead of the Lions because Joe Barry's defense couldn't stop the Falcons or Giants from mounting a game winning drive. We were even in the playoffs because we got lucky that the Saints missed a FG, the refs didn't call DPI on Valentine vs the Chiefs, and the Panthers didn't have one more second on the clock. All times Joe Barry's defense was unclutch again but lucked out. Regular season matters. He's not good enough. It's obviously so cut and dry and not worth defending. This ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAH1223 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I liken Barry to Coach Bud for the Bucks. Clearly time was numbered, but he made adjustments to get hot in the playoffs and that rightfully so saved his job until the inevitable. Barry's defense has a 4 down stand in the red zone last night and we win 21-17? I'm very willing to talk about how if the defense can have one more solid week and get us to the SB that Joe Barry earned the right to an extension because his unit stepped up when it mattered. However they gave up the game winning points, like they always do. That should be the end. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 2 minutes ago, MacReady said: DVOA doesn’t account for the massive difference we have invested in defense compared to other teams. You can’t understand that because you haven’t been told to. This doesn't make any sense. I'm aware of the draft capital we've spent there. What's the point? You're talking in circles with no real insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 3 minutes ago, incognito_man said: No disagreement on any of this. LIS, I think it's an upgradeable position. I liked our playoff defensive style a lot more than regular season. Only people inside the building know where much of that is coming from. If MLF was the impetus for the post season changes, he should find someone else. If Barry was the reason, his track record in post season play is encouraging. I think between MLF and Barry they handled the Jaire whine-fest well. I don't default side with Jaire at ALL in that situation. I think he's more to blame than Barry ever was. Not at all convinced Barry ever "lost the locker room" or whatever. I think it's more likely Jaire overestimates his support from his teammates. There's no doubt Joe is a quality human, I'd hire him tomorrow if my team needed a LBs coach. Some position coaches aren't coordinators and some coordinators aren't HC's just the way of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Keeping Barry is settling for mediocrity. Time for the Packers to set their sights a lot higher. Do we want to be a championship level program, or do we want to keep trotting out middling defenses? Based on the past decade or more this organization is satisfied with where they are at. That's why we only got one championship each out of Favre and Rodgers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: There's no doubt Joe is a quality human, I'd hire him tomorrow if my team needed a LBs coach. Some position coaches aren't coordinators and some coordinators aren't HC's just the way of the league. Then why do our linebackers continue to underperform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: I liken Barry to Coach Bud for the Bucks. Clearly time was numbered, but he made adjustments to get hot in the playoffs and that rightfully so saved his job until the inevitable. Barry's defense has a 4 down stand in the red zone last night and we win 21-17? I'm very willing to talk about how if the defense can have one more solid week and get us to the SB that Joe Barry earned the right to an extension because his unit stepped up when it mattered. However they gave up the game winning points, like they always do. That should be the end. "Like they always do" This is why people can't take your takes on Barry 100% seriously. Did Joe Barry's defense stop Mahomes on their last drive or not? What about week 18? Did Joe Barry's defense stop Chicago's last drive? The failures are more memorable (and unfortunately too frequent). But exaggerating doesn't help the actual point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 6 minutes ago, incognito_man said: LIS, I think it's an upgradeable position. I liked our playoff defensive style a lot more than regular season. How much of that is Joe Barry vs MLF hand holding / overseeing the Joe Barry coordinated defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I'm just steeling myself for MLF to decide he's going to keep Barry because of friendship/liking him or whatever. And then I'll be pleasantly surprised if they decide to not bring him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Just now, squire12 said: How much of that is Joe Barry vs MLF hand holding / overseeing the Joe Barry coordinated defense? How do we know MLF didn't have a bigger hand in the regular season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 2 minutes ago, incognito_man said: "Like they always do" This is why people can't take your takes on Barry 100% seriously. Did Joe Barry's defense stop Mahomes on their last drive or not? What about week 18? Did Joe Barry's defense stop Chicago's last drive? The failures are more memorable (and unfortunately too frequent). But exaggerating doesn't help the actual point. Come on lol, yes we stopped Mahomes by tackling MVS inside the 5. Ref didn't call it, but that coverage was the same level of terrible as Kevin King 1-1 with Scotty Miller to end the half in the 2020 NFCCG. We stopped the Bears. Yup. 1 for however many. Is that an acceptable number? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: There's no doubt Joe is a quality human, I'd hire him tomorrow if my team needed a LBs coach. Some position coaches aren't coordinators and some coordinators aren't HC's just the way of the league. I don't see why he couldn't be kept in some capacity other than DC if LaFleur thinks he's a valuable asset to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Just now, Packerraymond said: Come on lol, yes we stopped Mahomes by tackling MVS inside the 5. Ref didn't call it, but that coverage was the same level of terrible and Kevin King 1-1 with Scotty Miller to end the half in the 2020 NFCCG. We stopped the Bears. Yup. 1 for however many. Is that an acceptable number? I think I made my point pretty clear. "always" is not accurate or helpful to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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