Welcome Shaq Leonard

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

34 minutes ago, Danger said:

Off ball LBers in today's NFL that can't cover are definitely liabilities.

You just described like 75% of NFL LB's. Finding LB's that can both cover the pass and are good vs the run is not easy. You typically get guys who are good at one and bad at the other like Cunningham this year or Kyzir last year. Leonard used to be able to do both, but I have serious doubts he will be able to do it ever again post injuries.

[CasperX22]

25 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

You just described like 75% of NFL LB's. Finding LB's that can both cover the pass and are good vs the run is not easy. You typically get guys who are good at one and bad at the other like Cunningham this year or Kyzir last year. Leonard used to be able to do both, but I have serious doubts he will be able to do it ever again post injuries.

Coincidentally elite off ball  LB play is the 2nd most important position when it comes to correlated success on defense.  Which makes sense when you look at some of the better defenses in the NFL.  It seems illogical, but think how much of the game is played between the hashes in the passing game in the NFL today.  The Eagles would do well to quit completely ignoring investing in LB's.  Particularly in a defensive scheme where they don't blitz often and play a lot of shell coverage.  LB becomes pretty important to your team success.

[Nabbs4u]

Been drinking all day and completely missed this! Outstanding!

Now go get Ertz Too!

[EAGLES3658]

2 hours ago, CasperX22 said:

Coincidentally elite off ball  LB play is the 2nd most important position when it comes to correlated success on defense.  Which makes sense when you look at some of the better defenses in the NFL.  It seems illogical, but think how much of the game is played between the hashes in the passing game in the NFL today.  The Eagles would do well to quit completely ignoring investing in LB's.  Particularly in a defensive scheme where they don't blitz often and play a lot of shell coverage.  LB becomes pretty important to your team success.

How many great coverage LBs are there though? Feels like that is as hard to find as a franchise QB.

[EaglesPeteC]

1 hour ago, Nabbs4u said:

Been drinking all day and completely missed this! Outstanding!

Now go get Ertz Too!

Hell of a Monday….

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

2 hours ago, CasperX22 said:

Coincidentally elite off ball  LB play is the 2nd most important position when it comes to correlated success on defense.  Which makes sense when you look at some of the better defenses in the NFL.  It seems illogical, but think how much of the game is played between the hashes in the passing game in the NFL today.  The Eagles would do well to quit completely ignoring investing in LB's.  Particularly in a defensive scheme where they don't blitz often and play a lot of shell coverage.  LB becomes pretty important to your team success.

I mean I agree in part, but finding those guys in the draft is also insanely hard. You will have five to six Jamin Davis or Zavean Collins before you find one Roquan Smith. We should have most likely just resigned TJ Edwards and let Cox walk this past offseason in retrospect. TJ isn't an elite LB, but he can at least cover the run and pass adequately. But Howie will always default to the trenches as we have seen. That won't change. I am sure they were hoping Dean would become that guy, but he is very likely just a bust.

[CasperX22]

Just because they are hard to find doesn't mean they shouldn't try.  The Eagles are in their super bowl window right now.  The pain points in the short term and long term are at LB and CB.  It's arguable they should load up at those position early in the draft with as deep as they are on offense and the front 4.  With that said, I fully expect them to draft Brandon Graham's replacement and 1-2 lineman in anticipation for life after Lane and Kelce.

 

Also, how great would it be to see Jeremiah Trotter JR wearing eagles green?

[RandyMossIsBoss]

Maybe rumors of his decline were greatly exaggerated and they just have a looney tune owner? One can only hope… unfortunately, I do think he’s a washed. That being said, this signing can’t possibly hurt. Glad he chose us.

[Broadway Joe]

12 hours ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

I mean I agree in part, but finding those guys in the draft is also insanely hard. You will have five to six Jamin Davis or Zavean Collins before you find one Roquan Smith. We should have most likely just resigned TJ Edwards and let Cox walk this past offseason in retrospect. TJ isn't an elite LB, but he can at least cover the run and pass adequately. But Howie will always default to the trenches as we have seen. That won't change. I am sure they were hoping Dean would become that guy, but he is very likely just a bust.

It is very hard, but it is even harder when you don't even try. When you want to get them as late rounders or UDFAs you are just setting up for failure. That's one of the blind spots we have and one of our eternal team needs. 

I've always thought bringing Cox back was a mistake, specially with what we had at the time at LB, now somehow is even worse than then. 

Maybe they did think that about Dean, but shows us how bad they are at evaluating that position, because wasn't even able to earn playing time last year, and we put our eggs in that bag and even if he was actually good, we still needed another guy. 

[Nabbs4u]

11 hours ago, CasperX22 said:

Also, how great would it be to see Jeremiah Trotter JR wearing eagles green?

Maybe Howie goes full Steelers like they did with Porter Jr, but I doubt it. I'd be all for it.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Nabbs4u

[Broadway Joe]

1 hour ago, Nabbs4u said:

Maybe Howie goes full Steelers like they did with Porter Jr, but I doubt it. I'd be all for it.

 

 

You will take your backup OL/DL and like it. 

[Nabbs4u]

1 hour ago, Broadway Joe said:

You will take your backup OL/DL and like it. 

I'm not opposed to this approach because it's proven to work. 

We drafted Kelce's back ups the past three years and ended up with our Starting OG's Dickerson/Jurgens. One (Cam) probably replaces Jason next season.

We've drafted Hargrave and Cox's eventual replacements and now have Davis/Carter for the next decade hopefully.

We drafted Graham/Barnetts replacement and we won't know what Nolan Smith is until next year becuase shocker I know,  he's 4th on the depth chart.

We attempted to fill a LB spot this year for TJ Edwards replacement but Nakobe Dean who was the starter got injured. You can't predict injury.

You don't have to like the approach but thats at minimum 4 possibly 5 long term Starters moving forward. Just not the instant immediate day 1 starter Everyone is obsessed with. 

Typically the case when you have a SB caliber type roster and adding pieces. 

 

That said, Howie does need to adapt to the current NFL and understand LB are a necessity (Balt/SF) with the amount of short passes there are in the middle of the field with crosses and RB out of the backfield. 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Nabbs4u

[Broadway Joe]

13 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

I'm not opposed to this approach because it's proven to work. 

We drafted Kelce's back ups the past three years and ended up with our Starting OG's Dickerson/Jurgens. One (Cam) probably replaces Jason next season.

We've drafted Hargrave and Cox's eventual replacements and now have Davis/Carter for the next decade hopefully.

We drafted Graham/Barnetts replacement and we won't know what Nolan Smith is until next year becuase shocker I know,  he's 4th on the depth chart.

We attempted to fill a LB spot this year for TJ Edwards replacement but Nakobe Dean who was the starter got injured. You can't predict injury.

You don't have to like the approach but thats at minimum 4 possibly 5 long term Starters moving forward. Just not the instant immediate day 1 starter Everyone is obsessed with. 

Typically the case when you have a SB caliber type roster and adding pieces. 

 

That said, Howie does need to adapt to the current NFL and understand LB are a necessity (Balt/SF) with the amount of short passes there are in the middle of the field with crosses and RB out of the backfield. 

 

I do agree they are or may be good players (except maybe Nolan), and were drafted when the need was in the horizon, but we have positions that are a need in that moment and are not addressed because one of those may be a need down the road, and then the following year we still have the same need and we go with another backup because the trenches may become a need again. For example, the Cowboys went with a poor DL and mediocre OL for a season or two, but addressed other positions, and now they have a better DL than us, and also better second and third level on the defense. And they don't have to rely on trades and FA as much as we do because of that.

Also, I don't mean for this to come across too harsh but you keep saying "you can't predict injury" but fact of the matter is you absolutely can and the Eagles do. That is part of the reason they want to be so deep on both units, the reason they drafted Hurts in the first place and probably why we drafted Steen. If we can't predict a Lane Johnson injury each year, something is really wrong.

I agree with the last part absolutely, and don't get me wrong, I agree with the notion that you build through the trenches and that they are very important. My point has always been that we have gone way too far down road and we expect it to overcompensate the flaws on the defense. To the point that, we are not good at drafting pretty much anything else, we can't evaluate, S,LB,WR,CB maybe RB? to save our lives. 

Trenches? Good! But let's dial it down a bit.

[Jeezla]

15 hours ago, CasperX22 said:

Also, how great would it be to see Jeremiah Trotter JR wearing eagles green?

Exactly what we need. A worse Trent Edwards. Dime a dozen LB with a cool last name. If you look past what's written on his jersey, he's an average 5th round LB.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Jeezla

[EaglesPeteC]

Eagles should draft OL at 32