Week 14 Broncos at Chargers.

[Broncofan]

4 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Excellent win. Obviously a little bit of luck with Herbert getting hurt, but nice to see us just put a team away for once instead of letting it linger until the very end. We're sitting pretty right now which is the most encouraging thing. Have to assume LAC won't rush back Herbert, especially with them effectively out of the playoff race. Likely means we get Goff, Zappe, Stick and O'Connell to end the season, which is about as good a scenario as one could hope for.

I didn't think we were especially inspired offensively today, but didn't really need to be. Defensively we looked extremely good and Vance Joseph deserves a ton of credit for the significant shift this team has undergone in the last 7 weeks or so.

Just a point on Jerry Jeudy. I think he's about done in Denver. It's unfortunate because I know we all hoped it would end better, but that performance yesterday was abysmal. I think he's wayyyy too much in his own head and probably needs a fresh start somewhere that isn't Denver. The fans and media have soured on him and he's doing himself no favors on the field. I fully expect Denver to tackle the WR position in the draft, particular because Mims has been slow to get going.  It's always possible we move on from Russ and it unlocks Jeudy to some extent, but I think it's more likely they're both gone next year.

As one of the biggest Jeudy truthers out there I agree.    The sad part is he’s open so much and that’s the hardest skill to find.   But you can’t put that kind of effort like he did yesterday and in the TNF KC game and survive (not if there are real alternatives - agree Mims probably isn’t ready to be that guy yet next year either though). 

It’s not crazy to think where we will pick that WR will be in play as our first pick.   Even though we need trenches way more.   The WR talent at the top is pretty special.   At least 4 alpha WR’s who all would be #1 WR’s in most drafts.    It may be too good to pass up if we part ways with Jeudy.   

Edited December 11, 2023 by Broncofan

[jsthomp2007]

Kind of nice to have an easier win.  I was hoping for the shutout, but that's okay.  I cannot wait to see over the next few years if SP can install the offense he wants while keeping the defense where it is. If they can put that together, then the Broncos could be contenders; and I hope for perennial contenders like we used to be.

[champ11]

2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

As one of the biggest Jeudy truthers out there I agree.    The sad part is he’s open so much and that’s the hardest skill to find.   But you can’t put that kind of effort like he did yesterday and in the TNF KC game and survive (not if there are real alternatives - agree Mims probably isn’t ready to be that guy yet next year either though). 

It’s not crazy to think where we will pick that WR won’t be in play as our first pick.   Even though we need trenches way more.   The WR talent at the top is pretty special.   At least 4 alpha WR’s who all would be #1 WR’s in most drafts.    It may be too good to pass up if we part ways with Jeudy.   

Jeudy is letting us ponder “what if a WR can get open but sucks at everything else” 

[RandomCampBody]

10 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Well, not much to add to the discussion already.

A few observations:

-Russell Wilson is still a problem.   Jeudy owns his drop and failure to get his toe-tap on the TD (as a guy who had his yardage prop and 1st alt line hitting, that's a 7U swing....doh).    But Wilson also had him wide open for a walk in TD.    We scored points today mostly because our run game wore the Chargers out, along with our D.  This is a problem next week, because the DET O has a great run game & OL, and they can play the ball-control game with Amon-Ra St. Brown and Sam Laporta in their WR corps.  Their pass D is atrocious though, and only has 1 pass rusher, so it's going to be crucial that we play better on O in the pass game (they have a decent run D, which is why we need to have a functional pass game next week).      The pick that put LAC in our RZ - late throw, and inside.    Exactly what you're not supposed to do.     Today's win changes nothing with Russ - he's our biggest problem, but hopefully his stock for an offseason trade rose.

-Besides losing Herbert, the Chargers total lack of run game absolutely killed them vs. our D.   Smart teams would run it 30-35x against us, but LAC is so bad at the run game, they couldn't keep with that plan (why CLE didn't stick with that plan is still beyond insane IMO).

-Jeudy man, I get it, it's tough being in this O sometimes - but it's days like today that seal his fate with us.  It's just a matter of when, not if, at this rate.   And that's a shame, because he's getting so open - but you can't drop that ball, nor fail to get your feet in.   The feet-in was IMO worse than the drop.     Didn't cost us, but you can't be a NFL WR and fail at those plays (well you can if your name is Quentin Johnston, but even then he's a rookie).   SMH.

-Ja'Quan McMillan continues to be ascendant.   Nothing else need to be said.

-God, please be OK Nik Bonnito.   It's bad enough we lost Sterns, not Bonnito.   Pleaaaaase.

-Once Justin Herbert was out, it was game over.   But I'll also point out that HC Brandon Staley was just outclassed by Sean Payton, in even the simplest decisions.    Going for it TWICE in a 0-0 and 7-0 game with their limited weapons on pass O (it's Keenan Allen, and that's it; and they decided to go with hot-hand at RB - which seldom works out when it's a 3-man rotation like we saw today).    It's refreshing that we're winning the coaching edge each week now.

 

I'm so torn - because a 10-7 record almost certainly gets us in.  But we're going nowhere with our run D and Russell Wilson at QB.    Realistically, we're rightful dogs to DET...but then we play LAC without Herbert, NE & LV...so yeah, 10-7 is definitely possible.  I'd prefer we NOT make the playoffs, though - if only to cement the notion that Russ is not our 2024 QB (and thus our 2025 QB at 37M more...ugh).     Still, other than the Bonnito injury and Jeudy drops, hard not to give an A to the squad overall.  

At this point Denver are not getting any different QB if they finish in or outside the playoffs positions so i don't know why you would route against it.

Sean Payton is not reaching for a QB in the middle to late first round so draft position in the first round in terms of QB doesn't matter at this point and if wants to move on from Wilson he will regardless of what happens.

There's 3 QB's worth first round picks in this draft in Williams, Maye and Daniels and they will all be gone inside the top 10, everyone else are third round round prospects.

[Broncofan]

8 minutes ago, RandomCampBody said:

At this point Denver are not getting any different QB if they finish in or outside the playoffs positions so i don't know why you would route against it.

Sean Payton is not reaching for a QB in the middle to late first round so draft position in the first round in terms of QB doesn't matter at this point and if wants to move on from Wilson he will regardless of what happens.

There's 3 QB's worth first round picks in this draft in Williams, Maye and Daniels and they will all be gone inside the top 10, everyone else are third round round prospects.

I’m against Russell Wilson having his 2025 37M contract guarantee by being on the roster as of mid-March 2024.   Because he’s literally the main reason the O is limited.    
 

Making the playoffs would risk the illusion it can work with him at the helm.    It can’t when it matters.  So better the band-aid come off this offseason than be faced with the same pain for 2 more offseasons.  Missing the playoffs would almost be solely be due to Russell Wilson’s O deficiencies.    As an org we are way better off with Wilson off the books for 2024-5.   We aren’t going anywhere with Wilson at the helm in January.  So lose the battle win the war.  

[RandomCampBody]

12 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I’m against Russell Wilson having his 2025 37M contract guarantee by being on the roster as of mid-March 2024.   Because he’s literally the main reason the O is limited.    
 

Making the playoffs would risk the illusion it can work with him at the helm.    It can’t when it matters.  So better the band-aid come off this offseason than be faced with the same pain for 2 more offseasons.  Missing the playoffs would almost be solely be due to Russell Wilson’s O deficiencies.    As an org we are way better off with Wilson off the books for 2024-5.   We aren’t going anywhere with Wilson at the helm in January.  So lose the battle win the war.  

Sean Payton is not the type to be blinded by any illusions whatever happens, If he keeps Wilson it's because he thinks after a year coaching him he has a better finger of what works and what doesn't and can further build the offense that would get more out of him. If he doesn't think he can do that he will move on.

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Making the playoffs would risk the illusion it can work with him at the helm.    It can’t when it matters.  So better the band-aid come off this offseason than be faced with the same pain for 2 more offseasons.  Missing the playoffs would almost be solely be due to Russell Wilson’s O deficiencies.    As an org we are way better off with Wilson off the books for 2024-5.   We aren’t going anywhere with Wilson at the helm in January.  So lose the battle win the war.  

There's another way to look at that. Facing a good team in the playoffs would show our offense to be a house of cards. Sort of highlight the main deficiency. 

The only problem is our defense is playing so well consistently that we really are capable of a win in any game.

[Broncofan]

@thebestever6 - you’re up again - def some news that’s going to impact us: 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

That's concerning about Quinn. I mean football aside, and he's been great, I'm concerned on a human level for him. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by AnAngryAmerican

[Broncofan]

37 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

That's concerning about Quinn. I mean football aside, and he's been great, I'm concerned on a human level for him. 

If it’s atrial fibrillation, he should be ok.   Usually he’ll get an electrical study and ablation if they find a focus that triggers it.    That’s the most common arrhythmia.    
 

Obv the more serous ones (that lead to cases like Hank Gathers) would be worrisome.   But the description so far sounds hopeful.    Short-term though no matter the cause it certainly puts playing next week in question (and it’s more than fair obv as you mentioned).   

Edited December 11, 2023 by Broncofan

[jsthomp2007]

5 hours ago, Broncofan said:

I’m against Russell Wilson having his 2025 37M contract guarantee by being on the roster as of mid-March 2024.   Because he’s literally the main reason the O is limited.    
 

Making the playoffs would risk the illusion it can work with him at the helm.    It can’t when it matters.  So better the band-aid come off this offseason than be faced with the same pain for 2 more offseasons.  Missing the playoffs would almost be solely be due to Russell Wilson’s O deficiencies.    As an org we are way better off with Wilson off the books for 2024-5.   We aren’t going anywhere with Wilson at the helm in January.  So lose the battle win the war.  

Almost the Tebow scenario where we can all see what this team can be with solid QB play.

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

3 hours ago, Broncofan said:

If it’s atrial fibrillation, he should be ok.   Usually he’ll get an electrical study and ablation if they find a focus that triggers it.    That’s the most common arrhythmia.    
 

Obv the more serous ones (that lead to cases like Hank Gathers) would be worrisome.   But the description so far sounds hopeful.    Short-term though no matter the cause it certainly puts playing next week in question (and it’s more than fair obv as you mentioned).   

Except in the states cardiologists like to put people with paroxysmal a fib on blood thinners, probably not the best thing for a lineman.

highly doubt its HOCM (Gathers death helped spark ncaa physicals that include basic blood work and an EKG which would catch that)

unlikely to be wolf-Parkinson-White, as that would also typically appear on the ekg. 
 

most likely it’s SVT. Usually pretty benign especially if it’s triggerable (dehydration, electrolytes being off, ect)

 

[MontanaBronco]

1 hour ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

Except in the states cardiologists like to put people with paroxysmal a fib on blood thinners, probably not the best thing for a lineman.

highly doubt its HOCM (Gathers death helped spark ncaa physicals that include basic blood work and an EKG which would catch that)

unlikely to be wolf-Parkinson-White, as that would also typically appear on the ekg. 
 

most likely it’s SVT. Usually pretty benign especially if it’s triggerable (dehydration, electrolytes being off, ect)

 

In the case of paroxysmal a fib the plus side his chads2vasc is likely zero so I doubt they would anticoagulate him without seeing a thrombus on echo. SVT seems likely though. 

[Broncofan]

3 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

Except in the states cardiologists like to put people with paroxysmal a fib on blood thinners, probably not the best thing for a lineman.

highly doubt its HOCM (Gathers death helped spark ncaa physicals that include basic blood work and an EKG which would catch that)

unlikely to be wolf-Parkinson-White, as that would also typically appear on the ekg. 
 

most likely it’s SVT. Usually pretty benign especially if it’s triggerable (dehydration, electrolytes being off, ect)

 

Yeah that’s the issue if it’s afib in the US and they want blood thinners his season is over.   But long term he’ll be fine so long as he undergoes an ablation.   And it's not clear what to do with young ppl with no other risk factors.  I know the studies that suggest long-term risk is higher even with these patients, but the consensus on whether to treat is still far from uniform.  The US is the place where you'd see this recommendation the most, though.  In Canada, we'd probably never do it for a first-time healthy young adult, but would need 2-week holter evidence it's a real risk.  
 

 It would be surprising if it was SVT and he still needed to stay in hospital; though as he’d almost certainly be back in normal sinus rhythm (NSR) by now and otherwise healthy patients would be discharged overnight.     It’s if he’s still in afib that a patient might need to stay.    If it’s SVT and you’re in NSR patients go home.   But it’s the US system so I guess anything is possible. 

EDIT:  Saw that he was discharged....but there's more info that suggests it was afib, FWIW.  Either way, all good.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Broncofan

[AKRNA]

2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Yeah that’s the issue if it’s afib in the US his season is over.   But long term he’ll be fine.  
 

 It would be surprising if it’s SVT and he still needs to stay in hospital though as he’d almost certainly be back in NSR by now and otherwise healthy patients would be discharged overnight.    But it’s the US system so I guess anything is possible. 

Is it really uncommon for the guy to have to spend the night? I'd think that would be almost common practice, just for observation.