Fumble out of the endzone: whose ball should it be?

[nagahide13]

Where are we ranking Tee Higgins' TD on the all-time list? The catch was pretty decent but the open body turn around stretch? No fumble for a touchback? Wowzers.

[Duluther]

9 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Wrong thread fellas.

But while we're here...

Steelers' fans donated money to pay for the fines Harrison got for knocking people out. The fans themselves (that donated) have blood on their hands.

 

Browns fans still supported the team and Watson directly (financially and otherwise). Your fanbase isn’t different.

[Thomas5737]

2 minutes ago, Duluther said:

Browns fans still supported the team and Watson directly (financially and otherwise). Your fanbase isn’t different.

Yeah, most.

There would be no fans if every team that had a gross person playing for them meant you couldn't root for the team.

I'm just saying many Steelers fans approved of dirty play. No Browns fan thinks what Watson did was okay, a select few just refuse to believe it.

The Garrett thing was bad but that was a fight after a play. He was a dirty fighter. We're talking dirty plays. Every team has them but some more than others.

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, Duluther said:

Your insinuation is clear. This hit is not definitive proof for your irrational insinuation that the Steelers are a more dirty organization than any or all others.

And I’d refrain from using singular act to define franchises with, or Myles Garrett and his helmet swinging, skull-bashing act puts the Browns towards the dirtiest.

 

17 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Wrong thread fellas.

But while we're here...

Steelers' fans donated money to pay for the fines Harrison got for knocking people out. The fans themselves (that donated) have blood on their hands.

 

☝️

Get a clue dude. Go troll someone else and kindly leave me alone please.

[Duluther]

10 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah, most.

There would be no fans if every team that had a gross person playing for them meant you couldn't root for the team.

I'm just saying many Steelers fans approved of dirty play. No Browns fan thinks what Watson did was okay, a select few just refuse to believe it.

The Garrett thing was bad but that was a fight after a play. He was a dirty fighter. We're talking dirty plays. Every team has them but some more than others.

That’s a lot of silly qualifiers to get to “my fanbase good, their fanbase bad”. You’re not fooling anyone with this post. The Browns fanbase isn’t morally better than the Steelers’. This started as a very silly and thinly-veiled premise, but the defense for it has turned up the silly x10. And to top it all off, you claim some teams have more dirty plays than other, insinuating the Steelers have more than most. Are you going to genuinely say you’re in position to state how many each team has? Because your biased anecdotes won’t cut it outside of your team’s forum.

”Dirty fighter” lol

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, Duluther said:

That’s a lot of silly qualifiers to get to “my fanbase good, their fanbase bad”. You’re not fooling anyone with this post. The Browns fanbase isn’t morally better than the Steelers’. This started as a very silly and thinly-veiled premise, but the defense for it has turned up the silly x10. And to top it all off, you claim some teams have more dirty plays than other, insinuating the Steelers have more than most. Are you going to genuinely say you’re in position to state how many each team has? Because your biased anecdotes won’t cut it outside of your team’s forum.

”Dirty fighter” lol

This thread isn't about this... It's about the fumbling out of the end zone rule.

But since we're here...

I never said who had more or less of anything, you seem to have a guilty conscience.

 

[Duluther]

26 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

This thread isn't about this... It's about the fumbling out of the end zone rule.

But since we're here...

I never said who had more or less of anything, you seem to have a guilty conscience.

 

I’m not even a Steelers fan lol

[lancerman]

I don't even get how this is remotely controversial tbh. You fumble the ball, nobody owns it. If it goes out in the field of play, the field is neutral territory so it defaults to who had it last. The endzone is your opponent's territory, so the ball is given to the opponent. A ball neither team posseses that dies in the endzone is a touchback in virtually every scenario. 

The only reason to not like it, is that it hurts the offense. 

[lancerman]

On 12/15/2023 at 2:36 PM, incognito_man said:

incomplete passes in end zone = touchback for defense!

Completely different. The rules of what a forward pass is are fundamentally altered because the like a hundred years ago they decided they didn't want it to be a fumble everytime the ball wasn't caught. A thrown ball isn't considered live until someone completes a catch and becomes a ball carrier. If anything else happens, it's treated as though the ball died at the line of scrimmage. It's always been that way. It's a ball that is effectively dead until someone proves possession. That's consistent anywhere on the field. 

A ball that is live that goes dead in the endzone is almost always a touchback or safety. 

[lancerman]

On 12/15/2023 at 7:06 PM, incognito_man said:

No. There should be no reward or penalty for a ball going into neutral territory (OOB). I'd be totally in favor of an offense never being able to advance a fumble, however. Extend that rule to the entire game is fine.

I'd also definitely get rid of the automatic first downs on defensive holding and illegal contact. That's an easy one to fix that should be.

The problem isn't the ball going into neutral territory. The problem is that it dies in non neutral territory. The endzones aren't neutral. Out of bounds in the field of play is it dying in neutral territory and it defaults to the the team that had the ball last because that's the only thing that made sense. The endzones belong to a team so you let a ball that neither team possessed die in your opponents territory, hence your opponent gets it. It's the same concept as a punt. No team possesses the punt when it dies so if it dies in the endzone it's a touchback

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, Duluther said:

I’m not even a Steelers fan lol

Fine, then we can be friends.

[Soko]

6 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I said a punt is pretty much a live ball. If it hits the receiving team in the head and falls to the ground it's anyone's ball. If a pass does that it's a dead ball. A punt is a live ball, at least for the receiving team. It's illegal touching if the kicking team touches it, no penalty for that though.

“Its a live ball for both teams, if….”

It just isn’t a live ball, though. A forward pass is a live ball too, if it’s caught. I don’t see the reasoning behind adding stipulations for a punt and not for a forward pass. An offensive fumble is live. A punt isn’t. Add whatever contingencies you’d like, but they’re fundamentally different - on purpose, by design.

What is the reasoning behind comparing punt/kickoff rules (that are 95%+ of the time designated turnovers) to an offense vs defensive play? They’re different. 

[mse326]

6 hours ago, lancerman said:

I don't even get how this is remotely controversial tbh. You fumble the ball, nobody owns it. If it goes out in the field of play, the field is neutral territory so it defaults to who had it last. The endzone is your opponent's territory, so the ball is given to the opponent. A ball neither team posseses that dies in the endzone is a touchback in virtually every scenario. 

The only reason to not like it, is that it hurts the offense. 

Under that theory you should get the ball if you fumble it out of your endzone

[squire12]

3 hours ago, mse326 said:

Under that theory you should get the ball if you fumble it out of your endzone

The team gets " possession" at its 20 yard line for a free kick