Fumble out of the endzone: whose ball should it be?

[AngusMcFife]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-will-look-at-the-fumble-out-of-end-zone-rule

Edited December 14, 2023 by AngusMcFife

[Forge]

Don't change it. I know people hate that rule, but don't fumble it. We give offenses enough advantages as it is. 

I stand for the defenses! 

[minutemancl]

Don't take away the one last thing defenses have.

[scar988]

Offense should get the ball back, but with a 20-yard penalty. Put it at the 20 yard line if they fumble it out of the back of the end zone.

[Soko]

2 minutes ago, scar988 said:

Offense should get the ball back, but with a 20-yard penalty. Put it at the 20 yard line if they fumble it out of the back of the end zone.

This.

4th down conversions should be the only way the defense gets the ball without ever actually physically possessing the ball. 

[INbengalfan]

Always thought that the offense should keep possession since the defense did nothing to possess it.  But the downs count, ball placed at the 20.  So if it was on 3rd and goal, it's now 4th and goal from the 20.

 

Edit:  if they actually ban the hip drop tackle, leave it as is.  Defense has little going for it rulebook-wise.

Edited December 14, 2023 by INbengalfan

[vikingsrule]

4 minutes ago, scar988 said:

Offense should get the ball back, but with a 20-yard penalty. Put it at the 20 yard line if they fumble it out of the back of the end zone.

I’m leaning towards the offense keeping the ball with a loss of down. Can’t give them a new set of downs. I’ve never understood why the defense gets its when they never established possession of the ball. If the ball goes out of bounds on any other play it always goes back to the offense. 

[AngusMcFife]

7 minutes ago, scar988 said:

Offense should get the ball back, but with a 20-yard penalty. Put it at the 20 yard line if they fumble it out of the back of the end zone.

3 minutes ago, Soko said:

This.

4th down conversions should be the only way the defense gets the ball without ever actually physically possessing the ball. 

2 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

Always thought that the offense should keep possession since the defense did nothing to possess it.  But the downs count, ball placed at the 20.  So if it was on 3rd and goal, it's now 4th and goal from the 20.

 

Would you say the same should apply when an offense fumbles it out of their own endzone? Should they replace the safety with giving the offense possession at the 1 yard line?

[NudeTayne]

3 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

 

Would you say the same should apply when an offense fumbles it out of their own endzone? Should they replace the safety with giving the offense possession at the 1 yard line?

You play a dangerous game, my friend

 

 

 

 

 

, and I'm here for it.

[Soko]

2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Would you say the same should apply when an offense fumbles it out of their own endzone? Should they replace the safety with giving the offense possession at the 1 yard line?

No.

I forgot about safeties, I think it’s logical for them to result in turnovers as well. 

An offense fumbling the ball out of their own end zone is rewarding the defense. The offense fumbling the ball out of bounds in neutral territory is a neutral outcome - just a continuance. Now the offense has the defense on their heels, they get down field…but they fumble it outside the defense’s end zone. I don’t really see the logic in rewarding the defense for that. 

I agree that defenses have been getting shafted for years, but the solution for that, to me, isn’t just gifting them these possessions.

[Broncofan]

27 minutes ago, Forge said:

Don't change it. I know people hate that rule, but don't fumble it. We give offenses enough advantages as it is. 

I stand for the defenses! 

 

18 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Don't take away the one last thing defenses have.

 

Counterpoint - public bets on more scoring & the overs.

Winning bets feeds their children.

 

THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

[scar988]

10 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

I’m leaning towards the offense keeping the ball with a loss of down. Can’t give them a new set of downs. I’ve never understood why the defense gets its when they never established possession of the ball. If the ball goes out of bounds on any other play it always goes back to the offense. 

Loss of down is perfectly fair to add to the rule I'm thinking of. Fumble it out of the back of the end zone, loss of down, ball at the 20. So if it was 1st down, it's now 2nd. If it was 2nd, it's now 3rd. etc. But if it's 4th down, then it's a change of possession. At that point, it's a punt.

8 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

 

Would you say the same should apply when an offense fumbles it out of their own endzone? Should they replace the safety with giving the offense possession at the 1 yard line?

Not at all. And I say this as a fan of a team that's had 2 safeties scored on it the last two weeks.

[AngusMcFife]

Just now, Soko said:

No.

I forgot about safeties, I think it’s logical for them to result in turnovers as well. 

An offense fumbling the ball out of their own end zone is rewarding the defense. The offense fumbling the ball out of bounds in neutral territory is a neutral outcome - just a continuance. Now the offense has the defense on their heels, they get down field…but they fumble it outside the defense’s end zone. I don’t really see the logic in rewarding the defense for that. 

I agree that defenses have been getting shafted for years, but the solution for that, to me, isn’t just gifting them these possessions.

This is incorrect in my opinion. Once the offense fumbles the ball, they no longer possess it. Giving them automatic possession if the fumble goes out of bounds is a HUGE advantage arbitrarily given to the offense, since fumbles are typically recovered at about a 50% rate. 

For fumbles out of bounds in the field of play, I would prefer either
a) a coin flip to determine possession, or
b) a possession arrow similar to what happens when there is a jump ball in college basketball. 

[INbengalfan]

2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

 

Would you say the same should apply when an offense fumbles it out of their own endzone? Should they replace the safety with giving the offense possession at the 1 yard line?

No, but that's an interesting point, and probably why the rule is the way it is.

[INbengalfan]

2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

This is incorrect in my opinion. Once the offense fumbles the ball, they no longer possess it. Giving them automatic possession if the fumble goes out of bounds is a HUGE advantage arbitrarily given to the offense, since fumbles are typically recovered at about a 50% rate. 

In that case, since you brought it up, the rule works perfectly according to the math.  Defense gets it on their side of the field, offense gets it back on theirs, albeit the lost yardage back to the 20.  Which is where the defense would take over on the other side of the field.  Equilibrium.