scar988 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I get the idea of winning a division meaning something, but I think there’s a limit to it. The Browns are a good example this year as mentioned when looking at playing a road game vs the AFCS winner. What does winning the AFCS mean exactly? It’s not a good division. The Browns went 4-0 against the AFCS this year in fact but in all likelihood will be traveling to the AFCS winner in a couple weeks. There are 3 teams that are 8-7 that lead the AFCS. 8-7 is the Bengals record and they’re in last place. Oh, and theyre 0-5 in the division, meaning they’re 8-2 when they get the opportunity to play a non divisional opponent. Similar situation with Dallas and Tampa. Dallas has 2 more wins, better conference record, better division record, much better point differential, etc. I’m all for winning a division being a guarantee for a playoff spot regardless as to how putrid the division is, but I’d love to see some way for non division winners to host playoff games if they have a better season. Some sort of combination of total wins, strength of schedule, out of division record, point differential, etc. I just don’t see any reason for division winners to be guaranteed to host other than “because that’s how it’s always been done” or “winning your division matters” when in reality it only matters sometimes. Sometimes you’re just the shiniest turd. Yeah, I'd be for the 4 seeds still being division winners if it didn't screw over the Falcons in 2011. They had to play on the road at the Giants instead of playing at home when they were 11-5 and the Giants were like 9-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 1 hour ago, scar988 said: Yeah, I'd be for the 4 seeds still being division winners if it didn't screw over the Falcons in 2011. They had to play on the road at the Giants instead of playing at home when they were 11-5 and the Giants were like 9-7. The Falcons scored 2 points in that game. If that’s the kind of performance they put up against a supposedly inferior team just because they had to play on the road, why are we supposed to believe they’d have done anything significant in that postseason? If you can’t overcome adversity, you don’t deserve a thing. (and when I say “you” I don’t literally mean that you played for the 2011 Falcons, in case I need to clarify that.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 58 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said: The Falcons scored 2 points in that game. If that’s the kind of performance they put up against a supposedly inferior team just because they had to play on the road, why are we supposed to believe they’d have done anything significant in that postseason? If you can’t overcome adversity, you don’t deserve a thing. (and when I say “you” I don’t literally mean that you played for the 2011 Falcons, in case I need to clarify that.) Completely different team that year for the Falcons on the road vs. at home. 6-2 at home, +76 point differential 4-4 on the road, -16 point differential Completely changed the playoffs. Completely threw a 6 seed into a home game under the system pf9 is proposing. Falcons would have hosted the Lions under the pf9 system. Would have made a helluva lot more sense. I'd even be for letting the division winners have the 4 seed, but the better record hosts the actual game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 14 hours ago, VigilantZombie said: Except I disagree that a division winner shouldn't make rhe playoffs. Oh I think they should as well, what I mean by that is their record might say they shouldn’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 This isn’t usually my stance when it comes to making minor improvements, but if your reasoning is “look at team X, they had a better record than team Y but had to play team Y in their stadium (and then got smacked)” then that’s not really a good argument for why team X should’ve got the advantage and advanced, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said: I disagree completely. Adding an extra chance for teams with good records should be good enough. Why should anyone be the league champion if they can't even win their own division? Wild card is already an extra chance. They are lucky to have that chance, so they have to go on the road. To play devils advocate here..... Because some divisions are much more difficult to win than others and divisions themselves are arbitrary groupings of teams based on nothing but loose geographical location. We cant hide the fact that certain divisions historically are much better than others. Speaking as a Browns fan whose team plays in one of the hardest divisions in football every year, why should the Browns have to win 13 games in a season just to get home field advantage but other teams like the Jaguars only have to win 10 to get the same competitive benefit? Not only do the Jaguars (in this example) have a easier divisional schedule all year because their common opponents are worse, but they have a lower win total to meet to get into the playoffs. This creates a uneven playing field without competitive balance resulting in better football teams either getting left out of the playoffs completely or without home field. All because of the divisional grouping teams are in that's not based on anything performance related. Edited December 28, 2023 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: To play devils advocate here..... Because some divisions are much more difficult to win than others and divisions themselves are arbitrary groupings of teams based on nothing but loose geographical location. We cant hide the fact that certain divisions historically are much better than others. Speaking as a Browns fan whose team plays in one of the hardest divisions in football every year, why should the Browns have to win 13 games in a season just to get home field advantage but other teams like the Jaguars only have to win 10 to get the same competitive benefit? Not only do the Jaguars (in this example) have a easier divisional schedule all year because their common opponents are worse, but they have a lower win total to meet to get into the playoffs. This creates a uneven playing field without competitive balance resulting in better football teams either getting left out of the playoffs completely or without home field. All because of the divisional grouping teams are in that's not based on anything performance related. To piggyback on this, say a division has a 16-1 and a 15-2 team in it. Why would those not deserve to be the top 2 seeds in their conference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, scar988 said: To piggyback on this, say a division has a 16-1 and a 15-2 team in it. Why would those not deserve to be the top 2 seeds in their conference? Kinda like in 2013 where the Seahawks were 13-3 and the 49ers were 12-4 but the 49ers were a wild card team without homefield advantage despite having the second best record in the entire conference? But dont worry.... The 8-7 Packers that year got home field because they won their terrible division. smh smh (not that it mattered because the Packers lost but still, my point remains they should have never had it in the first place) Edited December 28, 2023 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Let’s get rid of conferences too. Just one big playoff race. Afterall, it isn’t fair that an AFC team might have an easier road than the NFC teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Just now, Soko said: Let’s get rid of conferences too. Just one big playoff race. Afterall, it isn’t fair that an AFC team might have an easier road than the NFC teams. Even better, just have the NFL take a page out of the NBAs book and have conference playoff seeding determined by overall record and not division winners. It really is a easy fix to at least get the more deserving/better teams playing at the appropriate stadiums in the playoffs and solves half the problem without much effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: Even better, just have the NFL take a page out of the NBAs book and have conference playoff seeding determined by overall record and not division winners. It really is a easy fix to at least get the more deserving/better teams playing at the appropriate stadiums in the playoffs and solves half the problem without much effort. My comment was sarcasm. If you’re in a tough division, you’re in a tough division. That’s sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Because all divisions aren’t equal in strength/difficulty. True, but neither are opponent's divisions. The AFCN feasted on the AFCS, except for the Bengals, which is why they find themselves in last, along with winless in division. For years the Patriots tran away with the #1 seed by feasting on an incredibly weak AFCE. Colts pretty much dominated the AFCS too. Meanwhile, the AFCN has almost always had 2 if not more playoff caliber teams. Divisional matchups also play a part. The Bengals and Ravens feasted on the NFCS last year. If you are going to penalize a team in a "weak" division, are you now going to adjust wins based on SoS? Just leave it as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Soko said: My comment was sarcasm. If you’re in a tough division, you’re in a tough division. That’s sports. On the contrary, If there is a opportunity to fix a problem with logic, do it. That's life Edited December 28, 2023 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said: If there is an opportunity to fix a problem with logic, do it. That's life It’s not a problem. Why not get rid of divisions and conferences all together, in the interest of fairness? There’s nothing fairer than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar12 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said: The refs handed you the win in Indy, let’s be clear. But since it’s so easy to beat AFCS teams you should have no trouble doing it again in January. I had a feeling that game would haunt them. They still control their destiny but man did that game suck at the end. Edited December 28, 2023 by Blackstar12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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