2018 Draft Thread I

[GW21]

6 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said:

One could argue that Reid is similar to James, but I think James could have a greater impact. 

This. Reid is a solid player, but never really developed into the dominant guy many thought he’d be after his probowl rookie season. While he is versatile, I think he could play SS, LB, and FS in a pinch but his best position is SS by a long ways. He couldn’t beat out Tartt, and from what I gathered, they didn’t like him at FS. Derwin could play any position in the secondary including CB and has the upside to be a probowl type guy year in and year out at multiple secondary spots. I think upside and versatility is why we would consider James.

[J-ALL-DAY]

I mean Tartt technically never beat out Reid. He was the back up heading into the season if not for Ward's injury......But then Tartt took advantage of his opportunity and became our third best defensive player behind Buckner/Foster.

Reid after Tartt's injury was pretty damn good though. He was playing at a high level and making plays all over the field. I'd still love to bring him back, but that doesn't look likely. And besides, he deserves to be a full time starter. Wish a team picks him up soon. 

[StevenK]

I thought last years off-season Saleh had mentioned that he liked Tartt more? That he was a better fit or something along those lines. I could have sworn I had read that. ?

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

The starters penciled in before Ward went down were Reid/Ward. Reid had a GREAT camp and preseason and was getting a lot of hype. 

[rudyZ]

I just watched two games of Josh Sweat, and I really hope whatever talk of us having interest in him is just a smokescreen. He's just not a good football player. He looks like a strong enough guy, but he has a slow first step, little explosion, and not a lot of moves. His best move is probably an inside rip, but since he has no outside move, he can't really set it up. I don't see his value as a pass rusher, and he's not really good against the run either (even if he was, I won't value any DE who can't bring the heat on the QB, at this point). If he's our solution for our pass rush, we're in trouble. I wouldn't spend a second rounder on him. I'd rather give Eli a chance.

[Forge]

45 minutes ago, rudyZ said:

I just watched two games of Josh Sweat, and I really hope whatever talk of us having interest in him is just a smokescreen. He's just not a good football player. He looks like a strong enough guy, but he has a slow first step, little explosion, and not a lot of moves. His best move is probably an inside rip, but since he has no outside move, he can't really set it up. I don't see his value as a pass rusher, and he's not really good against the run either (even if he was, I won't value any DE who can't bring the heat on the QB, at this point). If he's our solution for our pass rush, we're in trouble. I wouldn't spend a second rounder on him. I'd rather give Eli a chance.

His game tape is not pretty.  You have to believe that you can coach him up it the only way you take him in round 2.  The tape doesn't show the same thing that he was representing at the combine 

[big9erfan]

3 hours ago, rudyZ said:

I just watched two games of Josh Sweat, and I really hope whatever talk of us having interest in him is just a smokescreen. He's just not a good football player. He looks like a strong enough guy, but he has a slow first step, little explosion, and not a lot of moves. His best move is probably an inside rip, but since he has no outside move, he can't really set it up. I don't see his value as a pass rusher, and he's not really good against the run either (even if he was, I won't value any DE who can't bring the heat on the QB, at this point). If he's our solution for our pass rush, we're in trouble. I wouldn't spend a second rounder on him. I'd rather give Eli a chance.

I'd rather take Landry or davenport at 9 than sweat in the second. At least with those two there is high end potential. 

[AustrianNiner]

7 hours ago, Forge said:

His game tape is not pretty.  You have to believe that you can coach him up it the only way you take him in round 2.  The tape doesn't show the same thing that he was representing at the combine 

Absolutely. Guys like Carter and Holland look much better on tape, Carter especially looks pretty damn athletic. Should probably add a bit of bulk but I'd really consider him if he was there at the end of round 2.

Still not convinced by Davenport and Landry, it's really hard to find someone to help us with our pass rushing problem in this draft imo.

 

[rudyZ]

7 hours ago, Forge said:

His game tape is not pretty.  You have to believe that you can coach him up it the only way you take him in round 2.  The tape doesn't show the same thing that he was representing at the combine 

I don't mind players who lack technique, hand placement, moves, or just don't set up their moves well. But players who don't have a good first step in college probably won't have a good first step in the NFL. Still there are pass rushers with average first steps who are good pass rushers, but I didn't see anything to counter balance that in Sweat. If we're to take someone needing a healthy dose of coaching to be a capable pass rusher, I'd rather take Landry in the first than Sweat in the second. I feel like Sweat would be a complete waste of a pick. I have higher hopes in Landry. Or Davenport, even. 

[Forge]

9 hours ago, big9erfan said:

I'd rather take Landry or davenport at 9 than sweat in the second. At least with those two there is high end potential. 

There's absolutely high end potential with Sweat, the problem with him is that he definitely has notable deficiencies in  his game, the biggest being the one Rudy pointed out - he's really slow out of the gate. I have no reason for this, I don't understand it, but he is really bad in this regard. The question is can it be fixed? The counter moves, hand usage....that's stuff that can definitely be taught, but I don't know how to teach how slow he is off the snap. I don't know if that is teachable because I don't what the root of it is for him. 

[Forge]

4 hours ago, rudyZ said:

I don't mind players who lack technique, hand placement, moves, or just don't set up their moves well. But players who don't have a good first step in college probably won't have a good first step in the NFL. Still there are pass rushers with average first steps who are good pass rushers, but I didn't see anything to counter balance that in Sweat. If we're to take someone needing a healthy dose of coaching to be a capable pass rusher, I'd rather take Landry in the first than Sweat in the second. I feel like Sweat would be a complete waste of a pick. I have higher hopes in Landry. Or Davenport, even. 

The counter balance would just be his natural athletic ability. There are better pass rushers available when he will be taken from an on the field standpoint. You're banking on the pure upside of Sweat. I agree, the slowness off the snap is simply terrifying. I don't get it. I don't know how to fix that. I Don't know if it's coachable. If it is, then I absolutely see why you take him - given his natural ability and athleticism, if you get him right, he's a stud. But that's why he's a 2/3 rather than a 1 (not to mention his medicals). You should have higher hopes in those two players because they are better prospects, so that's natural.  Would I be confident that Sweat could become the what his athletic numbers suggest he could be? Definitely not. But the guy has always had that type of pedigree...it just hasn't been fixed or can't be fixed (he was a five star recruit heading into college) But something is not clicking on the field, that much is for certain. I don't know how you fix it, or if you can. But I understand the desire to try, especially in that end of round 2 early round 3 thing. The problem is, where do you put him against others that are going to be available in that range or later? I mean, I really like Ejiofor from his tape. But he's not a quick twitch guy, a little heavier, etc. I think Ejiofor probably goes in round 3, though I could see him drop a little further like Yannick a couple of years ago (another guy I loved). Holland, who is another guy with good tape, doesn't have an ideal build for the edge. He's a little more short and stout, not super fluid. But you can't argue the tape. Heck, I really like Marcell Frazier...there's a possibility that he doesn't get drafted, and if he does, it's probably unlikely that he goes before round 6 or so (I'm saying that because of his lack of a combine invite, which means low level interest from the team)? Just because he's not the athlete you want there - but put on that tape, watch him attack as a pass rusher, and it's very easy to like him from what you see. Right or wrong, I think a lot of teams are looking for the athletic guys in this role first. Guys like Hubbard and Greene...I just don't know about their fit as a traditional LEO. Hubbard isn't the most natural pass rusher either. It's just a crappy draft for the position in my opinion. Tyquan Lewis is intriguing. Is he a LEO? I don't know. Dorance Armstrong is a guy that I know y2 doesn't particularly love, but he was asked to play differently last year at Kansas. But obviously, he has flags the same as Sweat at that point. I like Dorance more than most I think though.  I don't mind banking on the athletic upside of Sweat in rounds 2/3 while letting Attachou start the season at LEO and maybe taking the year just to get him right if that's what you're going to do. I also don't mind punting the pass rush all together since I'm not in love with Landry or Davenport at 9, and after that, the players get mighty murky. 

[big9erfan]

2 hours ago, Forge said:

There's absolutely high end potential with Sweat, the problem with him is that he definitely has notable deficiencies in  his game, the biggest being the one Rudy pointed out - he's really slow out of the gate. I have no reason for this, I don't understand it, but he is really bad in this regard. The question is can it be fixed? The counter moves, hand usage....that's stuff that can definitely be taught, but I don't know how to teach how slow he is off the snap. I don't know if that is teachable because I don't what the root of it is for him. 

You know guys better than I do, but I just don't see it. The things you're talking about can't usually be coached. He looks like a future JAG to me. 

[rudyZ]

2 hours ago, Forge said:

I also don't mind punting the pass rush all together since I'm not in love with Landry or Davenport at 9, and after that, the players get mighty murky.

Yeah, there's a clear lack of exciting pass rushing prospects. I'm also more curious about Sneeze's potential (I will never get around to spelling Jeremiah's name) than most of the rookies in this class. Take a shot on an unknown small school guy on day 3, alright. We finally have a coaching staff that might just pay enough attention to these young guys to actually find a hidden gem. 

Could we possibly trade down with our first pick low enough to get another first next year? Maybe with two firsts, then, we'd have the ammunition to get the pass rusher that we need. Then we could use our low first this year on a G like Wynn, or a WR if we feel one has potential.

[struby3]

From the 2008 draft through the 2014 draft, Jimmie Ward is the only player that we drafted that is still on the 49ers. Think about that. Seven drafts worth of players that should make up the core of our team and only ONE player is still a member of our franchise. That is the definition of poor drafting. Thanks a lot, Baalke, you piece of dung.

[Forge]

5 hours ago, big9erfan said:

You know guys better than I do, but I just don't see it. The things you're talking about can't usually be coached. He looks like a future JAG to me. 

I'm just talking strictly athletically. I get his appeal for teams because what he can do, you can't teach. But the draft graveyard is littered with the bodies of similar people. You can look at a guy like Barkevious Mingo, who Sweat is pretty similar to. I'm not saying he's the guy or he becomes a stud, but there's a reason that he'd be looked at in rounds 2 / 3. Guys like Ejifor, or Greene, Armstrong, they are looked at in the second and third rounds based on what they have done on film as much as what they could grow into. Sweat is looked at in that range based purely on the high upside potential of his athleticism and what he could potentially bring if it ever all clicked in spite of his tape for the most part. At least in my opinion. So I just think saying he doesn't have high end potential is wrong - he's the one guy in that range that probably has the highest end potential out of the comparable prospects. But there's a really good chance that he completely busts - I don't think that he has a middle ground where he could be a nice rotational piece or something.