Raiders hire Antonio Pierce as Head Coach

[reddevil]

7 hours ago, Chali21 said:

I also want to be clear on this as well. I don’t think everyone who supports AP is dumb or were even blindly in favor of it. There have been many guys here who were disappointed because they wanted a wider net cast in the HC search but have accepted him. A portion of fans wether they be very vocal or not have stated that they like the culture change he’s brought and that he’s a “Raider”. 
 

This sort of thing happens with players too. Lots of guys wanted Leonard Williams because he fit a need and was a Raider fan. Guys liked the drafting of Abrams because he was a hard hitting safety that reminded them of Atkinson and Tatum. Gallery was loved as a pick for the Raiders because he had the long hair and tats. People liked Rob Ryan because he looked like a Raider. 

I absolutely get that. It just seems like over the past few days, the narrative has shifted on here and some of the vitriol about AP worsened. 
 

If you read back to my posts about AP’s hiring - I too have reservations, not least about the process. I just feel some of the anti- AP sentiment has become as reductive as some of the the pro-AP sentiment. 

And surely we can all agree not to take too seriously the folk who want us to recruit based on the way people dress or look!

[reddevil]

8 hours ago, Jerry said:

There are many more opinions on Twitter than there are on this forum.  There were literally 100s if not thousands of votes from Raiders fans that picked Jayden Daniels over Caleb Williams at first overall.  Whether you consider it extreme or not doesn't change the fact that it exists and that its relevant.

Honestly the second portion of your post doesn't really align.  You say I'm being a hypocrite because I hate that Raiders fans are extremely supportive of AP.  And then you go on to say that its extreme for me to use Twitter opinion as a way to criticize him.  

Look man if people want to buy black air force ones to support him then they can go for it.  At the end of the day, I really don't care.  Just don't be surprised if he doesn't work out and all of a sudden, we see videos of these same people burning them in trash cans like people burn jerseys after players don't succeed.

I don't need to go to Twitter to criticize Mark Davis' decision to hire AP.  That's where you're wrong.  I was just making conversation.  I've already said it, I support AP.  I hope he does well.  I do like him.  More than McDaniels.  But there are still several issues that I have with how the whole process happened.

1st I'll go with the fact that there were other candidates we should have interviewed.  I think we interviewed only two other candidates?  They weren't even legitimate contenders for HC when you really look at it.

2nd I'll go with the fact that we should have hired a GM first.

3rd I'll go with the fact that his track record isn't anything to brag about when you look at more than just the 5-4 record (backup QBs, team with no heart when we played LAC, college and high school record).

4th I'll go with the fact that he doesn't even really have a track record.

5th I'll go with the fact that we have no idea if he can even assemble a coaching staff.  We may end up losing PG and end up with two unknowns at OC and DC.  

6th I didn't like that players got involved in the decision making (Maxx Crosby) talking about how if he isn't hired then all options are on the table.  If Crosby really cared about winning, he should have at least considered the possibility of M. Davis trying to hire the best candidate possible.  Which may have not been AP.  We will literally never know if we had the opportunity to hire the next HOF coach because we didn't even try.

7th I'll go with this because in the back of my mind it does bother me.  I think @NYRaider brought this up.  Interim coaches have a horrible track record.  If AP fails we're all going to have to live with @NYRaider saying I told you so even though each Raiders fan on this forum is already a tiny bit iffy on our hiring of AP.

So yeah.  If you think I need Twitter to criticize the hire you're wrong.  AND AGAIN!!!  I'm okay with the hire.  Just don't like how we went about hiring him.  I'm rooting for him.  Way more than I'm rooting for McDaniels. So hopefully we win 13 games next year.

Perhaps I wasn’t 100% clear in my post - but this is kinda exactly my point. You clearly don’t need Twitter, or rather the narrative about some of the more outlandish reasons to support AP to criticise aspects of the hire.

And I agree with most of what you’ve written above!

[Jerry]

4 minutes ago, reddevil said:

Perhaps I wasn’t 100% clear in my post - but this is kinda exactly my point. You clearly don’t need Twitter, or rather the narrative about some of the more outlandish reasons to support AP to criticise aspects of the hire.

And I agree with most of what you’ve written above!

I agree with you.

I was just making conversation.

Twitter (and this forum) can get wild at times.

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 hours ago, Tank4Drake said:

The fact of the matter is, both were reasons why we succeeded. I’d give 65% to PG and 35% to AP. AP made some roster changes that allowed us to thrive, but schemes are everything in the NFL, and without Graham’s brilliant scheme, those roster changes are useless. Graham can go to a new team and get great players… AP can’t just learn Graham’s scheme and install it. 

Ideally you’d elevate pg to hc and pierce to dc but mark picked pierce to be hc so here we are. Imo unless pg gets a hc gig he’s staying. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

8 hours ago, Jerry said:

There are many more opinions on Twitter than there are on this forum.  There were literally 100s if not thousands of votes from Raiders fans that picked Jayden Daniels over Caleb Williams at first overall.  Whether you consider it extreme or not doesn't change the fact that it exists and that its relevant.

Honestly the second portion of your post doesn't really align.  You say I'm being a hypocrite because I hate that Raiders fans are extremely supportive of AP.  And then you go on to say that its extreme for me to use Twitter opinion as a way to criticize him.  

Look man if people want to buy black air force ones to support him then they can go for it.  At the end of the day, I really don't care.  Just don't be surprised if he doesn't work out and all of a sudden, we see videos of these same people burning them in trash cans like people burn jerseys after players don't succeed.

I don't need to go to Twitter to criticize Mark Davis' decision to hire AP.  That's where you're wrong.  I was just making conversation.  I've already said it, I support AP.  I hope he does well.  I do like him.  More than McDaniels.  But there are still several issues that I have with how the whole process happened.

1st I'll go with the fact that there were other candidates we should have interviewed.  I think we interviewed only two other candidates?  They weren't even legitimate contenders for HC when you really look at it.

2nd I'll go with the fact that we should have hired a GM first.

3rd I'll go with the fact that his track record isn't anything to brag about when you look at more than just the 5-4 record (backup QBs, team with no heart when we played LAC, college and high school record).

4th I'll go with the fact that he doesn't even really have a track record.

5th I'll go with the fact that we have no idea if he can even assemble a coaching staff.  We may end up losing PG and end up with two unknowns at OC and DC.  

6th I didn't like that players got involved in the decision making (Maxx Crosby) talking about how if he isn't hired then all options are on the table.  If Crosby really cared about winning, he should have at least considered the possibility of M. Davis trying to hire the best candidate possible.  Which may have not been AP.  We will literally never know if we had the opportunity to hire the next HOF coach because we didn't even try.

7th I'll go with this because in the back of my mind it does bother me.  I think @NYRaider brought this up.  Interim coaches have a horrible track record.  If AP fails we're all going to have to live with @NYRaider saying I told you so even though each Raiders fan on this forum is already a tiny bit iffy on our hiring of AP.

So yeah.  If you think I need Twitter to criticize the hire you're wrong.  AND AGAIN!!!  I'm okay with the hire.  Just don't like how we went about hiring him.  I'm rooting for him.  Way more than I'm rooting for McDaniels. So hopefully we win 13 games next year.

Actually I see daniels gaining traction and some draft “experts” are picking him as the 2nd qb off the board behind Caleb. Caleb rubs some the wrong way so I can see the daniels hype train increasing. Hell daniels is my fav qb in this draft before we even elevated pierce lol fwiw. Maybe some just like daniels more cause he produced and he’s taller than Caleb. I remember Al loved heismans too

[bucksavage1]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

There’s more to it than just what happened over the last nine games. If that’s all that matters to you then you’ll never do what’s best. You have to consider more than just the last 9 games. The fact that you think that’s more than enough to choose a HC is why I’m glad you have no say in the matter. We should’ve done a real hiring process. Not just gone with the guy that makes you happy in the moment. There were other candidates we should have interviewed and considered.

You have to be blind with optimism to believe the way we hired AP was the best choice. Not the fact that we hired him. But the fact that we literally didn’t interview any other decent HC candidate. 

We all want to see the Raiders win. It’s why we have an issue with the hiring process. Not AP, but the hiring process. We could have interviewed so many people and we decided to interview AP and two JAGs to satisfy the Rooney rule.

We all like the coach. Just wish more effort was put into the hiring of the HC that we will have running the show for the next 2-3 years.

You really took this conversation to the extreme.

If there wasn’t a Rooney Rule, Pierce would have had his interim tag removed during the season. In a perfect world , yes we could have interviewed other candidates but the organization already knew what they wanted. Why waste the other coaches time. I see no problem with people having an issue with the process.
 

Mark spent 175 million in coaches the last 6 years that arent here anymore. Harbaugh, great coach was probably never financially possible. According to Vic Tafur we talked to his agent.  

I’m the person taking it to the extreme? But the posters constantly dumping on the team lose, supporting rival teams to win, talking down on people being optimistic, saying all people happy with the hire just like his catchphrases and clothes aren’t taking it to the extreme? Lol, you should replace “We” with “I”. You’re more level headed than other that just seem to be plain hating

 

[Nightmare]

1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said:

If there wasn’t a Rooney Rule, Pierce would have had his interim tag removed during the season. In a perfect world , yes we could have interviewed other candidates but the organization already knew what they wanted. Why waste the other coaches time. I see no problem with people having an issue with the process.
 

Mark spent 175 million in coaches the last 6 years that arent here anymore. Harbaugh, great coach was probably never financially possible. According to Vic Tafur we talked to his agent.  

I’m the person taking it to the extreme? But the posters constantly dumping on the team lose, supporting rival teams to win, talking down on people being optimistic, saying all people happy with the hire just like his catchphrases and clothes aren’t taking it to the extreme? Lol, you should replace “We” with “I”. You’re more level headed than other that just seem to be plain hating

 

The money isn’t an issue. That’s a tired media narrative driven by the fact that Mark Davis is quite low down the rankings in terms of NFL ownership wealth. The key difference being that Mark is a fan who owns his team, rather than a businessman who bought the team because they’re a fan. There’s a massive difference between these two things, because it means Mark doesn’t care about the bottom line to the extent other owners do.

I wouldn’t put much stock in a throwaway, passive aggressive comment from Vic Tafur, who clearly doesn’t have any real sources or a clue what’s actually going on and just snaps back at fans with these kind of lines which are impossible to prove, because he has no real intel.

If Mark Davis wanted to hire Jim Harbaugh, money would not have been an obstacle. It wasn’t an obstacle for Gruden or McDaniels and their stupid contracts, and it wouldn’t be this time either.

 

And I have to agree with Jerry; you are taking it to the extreme. There are extremes and exaggerations on both sides of this whole Head Coach argument, and you are firmly planted on one of the far sides. You’ve negatively pounced on every other suggestion anyone else has had as a potential HC, and are now saying there was no point in doing a proper HC search. That’s your opinion, fair enough. I just believe that this type of thinking is incredibly lazy and partly explains why this franchise has been an embarrassing joke for so long.

[big_palooka]

10 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I thought I remember Crosby saying the meeting happened and people were letting everything out?

The meeting happened. But not that rumor where JMD asked Antonio to speak and he said something about beating the Pats in the Super Bowl to which JMD got offended. That is what everyone build their hero/villain story off of to start.

[big_palooka]

10 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

A lot of sad takes in this forum. Reduced to talking about others supporting a coach because of his Clothes , Shoes and catch phrases? 

All what matters is what transpired on the field. The team play elevated on all aspects. Not just with emotion but tactical and player development.  The better players were in position to succeed. You gotta be blind with anger not to have optimism going into next season

Sad lol. People would rather see the team lose to RIVALS because they don’t like the coach

I imagine The Lions fans had Dan Campbell naysayers until he finally turned the team around

It is only January and the anti-AP crowd gonna crow on everything all year just because you don’t like the coach. 

There is no anti-AP crowd. You're trying to create narrative for literally no reason. Outside NY, name the "anti-AP crowd". You can't, it doesn't exist. 

There are two crowds - Those who became instantly enamored with the guy and bought in no matter what.

And those who would have preferred a more thorough search and question his short resume coming into this role.

Neither is right or wrong. Not everything has to be "your guy vs. my guy" Absolutely nobody "wants to see the team lose". So stop trying to create division with BS narratives.  

 

[big_palooka]

8 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

https://x.com/hbnadolny/status/1749613991503265894?s=46&t=rfjQOnFxN5Y5dbOW6S1nog

I like Pitcher. Was an obvious connection with Marvin Lewis coming on. Callahan was hired in Tennessee, so he'd likely get the nod to OC in Cincy. But be able to call plays here.

 

[Darbsk]

18 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

I accepted this organization is going stay in the dumps. We are going lose Graham, and Pierce will get exposed. Shouting Raiders could only get you so far. 

I think you’re selling Pierce short here. As I’ve said often, ideally I’d have wanted Jim Harbaugh as HC but I like Pierce. He’s done much more than ‘shout Raiders’. Sure, he’s a bit cringy but he is genuine I think but most of all he made subtle and sensible changes when he came in, those should not be overlooked by the crowd (not specifically you HB) who label him a rah rah guy only.

He benched Garoppolo who was holding the entire O back and threw in the rookie. AOC wasn’t great, but what it did do was keep the D honest and the running game started to really function, it simply hadn’t previously.

He made Koonce the starting DE and used Wilson as the rotation and put him inside rushing at DT much more which helped both players, all of a sudden we had pressure from both ends. 

He cut Marcus Peters as he simply wasn’t putting in the effort other guys were and was a weak link with his commitment and tackling.

He along with Kelly signed Jack Jones who became our starting CB and had a great impact. Really solidified the defensive backfield.

Discipline immediately improved and stayed consistent the second half of the year.

When Jacobs went down he gave White, not Abdullah or Bolden the start and White repayed his faith with several good performances. White was seen as a potential cut before and now we’re talking about not re signing Jacobs and rolling with White.

Now, I’m not saying Pierce is without fault or that we shouldn’t have interviewed more candidates and cast our net wider at least initially, I think we should have, but to just diminish AP as some glorified cheerleader who simply rode a wave of good vibes is just wrong IMHO. He made some astute decisions and reaped the benefits.

 

Edited January 23 by Darbsk

[bucksavage1]

1 hour ago, Nightmare said:

The money isn’t an issue. That’s a tired media narrative driven by the fact that Mark Davis is quite low down the rankings in terms of NFL ownership wealth.

There’s a difference between having the money and deciding to do use it at another expensive coach. Nobody saying Mark doesn’t have it but business wise it can make sense to try a lesser price coach. 

Harbaugh deservingly so will cost north of 15 million per season.  We would by far have spent the most on coaches in a decade. 

1 hour ago, Nightmare said:

You’ve negatively pounced on every other suggestion anyone else has had as a potential HC, and are now saying there was no point in doing a proper HC search.

I stated my opinion that don’t like prospects from another teams coach who was fired is just an opinion. If that’s extreme, yea I don’t see that. 

So how do you know those coaches wanted to interview with us? Did you hear from them that the Raiders didn’t call? You know, everyone else watch us this season too. 

[bucksavage1]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Now, I’m not saying Pierce is without fault or that we shouldn’t have interviewed more candidates and cast our net wider at least initially, I think we should have, but to just diminish AP as some glorified cheerleader who simply rode a wave of good vibes is just wrong IMHO. He made some astute decisions and reaped the benefits.

This is great point. And exactly what I my complaints come from.

Like @Darbsk said, to diminish wins, positives and insult the coach as some rah-rah that doesn’t know what he’s doing isn’t right. The coach had several positives we haven’t seen here in decades

People can have questions and still be fair

 

[Jeremy408]

Dan pitcher could be a good or candidate

[ronjon1990]

9 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Wild take. I’ve noticed once somebody is in your crosshairs you will stop at nothing to create a negative narrative around them (PG, Big Palooka, Champ Kelly, etc.). Even after PG delivered exceptional results with bottom 5 defensive talent, you still refuse to give the man any credit. 

I notice that people love to throw "bad take" or "wild take" around without actually taking the risk of explaining how that is. Feel free to break that mould.

On PG, you're incorrect. I gave the credit that was due with the qualifiers that absolutely exist- he was not good at his job until Pierce took over, amd even at that, most of the teams we played were broken trash. No, I don't think that's a good indicator that we've turned a corner overall for a sustained run. 

See, here's the thing and how it works:

Patrick Graham was undeniably bad in 2022. The playcalling was bad, the designs were bad. From week 1 to week 18, it was just plain bad. 

What, at that point, were the excuses? 

I remember them- talent level, the scheme was complex, guys weren't use to the scheme yet, our offense was too janky. 

Fast forward to post-Halloween 2023. 

AP takes over. Graham is sent to the booth. Guys that were previously stuck on the sideline got meaningful playing time. Guys that nobody could justify getting playing time were outside. The defense actually started to function....

Why? 

Well let's go through the 2022 excuse list:

Talent level? Eh....we didn't add much, did we? Most of the guys we brought in were a wash on what we had last year. With the exception of Jack Jones, who? Spillane? Love them both but neither is the difference between a bottom ranked D and top ranked one. 

The scheme was complex? Mayhaps. Why did it take over a year and a half to un-complex it? Who made that call? 

The guys weren't use to the scheme yet? Oh? So in 18 weeks last year we couldnt.gwt used to it, but in 10 or so this year we did....but what about the roster turnover from last year? Those guys should be weak links then, yet they were arguably our best players outside of Maxx, who had a lot of time in the scheme, and Koonce, who was inexplicably kept sidelined until Pierce became the decision-maker. 

Our offense was too janky? Well....this one was sure as heck dispelled now, wasn't it? 

So what? Well then the excuse for why nothing happened before became that AP "unleashed Graham". That McDaniels held Graham back from running the D. What? LMAO! Nobody cares to recognize how bad of a look that is for a defensive coordinator who wants to be taken seriously? That doesn't even begin to acknowledge the indisputable fact we played a lot of trash teams during our great stretch, something we can't bank on happening every year. 

I've said before on Graham that no matter how many excuses get made for him, it always traces back to him being mediocre as milk. At absolute best, per the excuses made for why adjustments were not made before AP took charge, he's nothing more than a "Yes" man to the HC and would have willingly gone down with McDaniels' direction if need be. Tell me how that is not correct, based on the excuses made for him and his previous failure here. 

It's quite simple- he was bad until AP took charge. Whether AP himself forced the changes singlehandedly or not, it's a poor look for Graham in my book. Why? Because those changes were either a collaborative effort Graham lacked the spine for when McDaniels was here and is just a "Yes" man to the HC or they weren't his moves to start with. Amd that's the guy people want to demand we keep? I think not. 

I've noticed, too, that many of Graham's most ardent supporters were guys who either took a long time to accept AP or have yet to. Seems like they use Graham a lot as their crutch- we have to keep him or we're screwed, it was really all him, not AP, etc. The evidence doesn't lead to that. 

I note that you specifically talk about bottom 5 defensive talent. Oh, really? They're bottom 5? 27 other teams have at least Koonce, Crosby, Hobbs, Jones, Robertson, Spillane, Moehrig, and Epps level talent covering 8 of 11 positions on their defense? Then why on earth are we not talking about going defense-heavy in the draft? Why the optimism on defense while we talk about trading massive amounts of assets away to move up for a QB like that's all we need? If we're a bottom 5 talent level D, no way on earth are we "A QB away from contending", as per the general consensus. That's nonsense bro. You don't get to have your top tier pass rush duo, one of the best slot CBs, solid outside CBs, and decent S duo cake and eat it too. We have 3 spots on defense not occupied by someone considered at least pretty decent. And even that's a bit of a disservice to Deablo and Butler.

Saying we have bottom 5 defensive talent to try and prop up Graham is weak. Maxx isn't a product of Graham. Koonce was, if anything, held back on sideline by him, Jack Jones was known to be talented but a personal headcase. Spillane and Epps came in as relatively known commodities and recognized starting players from elsewhere. Amik has long been boom-bust. Hobbs was proven before Graham got here. Again, you really believe that collection of guys is worse than 27 other teams in this league? That, my friend, is a wild take. 

 

Now, all that being said, you're right- when someone or something is wrong, I'm not going to go all ostrich and poke my head in the sand. I'm going to reinforce it. 

McDaniels was in my crosshairs and I was called a fake fan who didn't have a clue. Oh? 

Zeigler was in my crosshairs and I was called a fake fan who didn't have a clue. Oh? 

Josh Jacobs was in my crosshairs as a guy driven by money who wasn't worth building around and spending top RB money and I was called a hater. Oh? 

I criticized Caleb Williams and everyone said I was crazy. Oh? 

BP...glad he finally came around and our war seems to have ended, but dude was adamant on 3 years for McDaniels until he wasn't, despite a mountain of evidence piling up. He was beyond vocal of his support for The Way for over a year, almost daily. 

Edited January 23 by ronjon1990