HerbertGOAT Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) Since this has turned into a Rivers thread, here are some facts that get in the way of those pesky little narratives. Qbs to ever put up 100+ passer rating in 3+ consecutive years: Steve Young Russell Wilson Aaron Rodgers Peyton Manning (twice!!!) Patrick Mahomes Kirk Cousins Drew Brees (6 in a row lol) Tom Brady Philip Rivers QBs to put up a 120+ passer Rating+ (era adjusted) in 3+ consecutive years Steve Young Drew Brees Rich Gannon Peyton Manning Joe Montana Johnny Unitas Kurt Warner Roger Staubach Philip Rivers QBs to put up a 120+ Passer Rating+ AND 120+ANY/A+ in 3+ consecutive years Peyton Manning Steve Young Roger Staubach Johnny Unitas Philip Rivers Players with most total seasons of 120+ Passer Rating+: P. Manning 9 Drew Brees/Steve Young 8 Aaron Rodgers 7 Joe Montana 6 Philip Rivers/Roethlisberger/Staubach/Tarkenton 5 Brady/Favre/Griese/Dawsn/Tittle 4 Players with most total seasons of 120+ Passer Rating+ AND ANY/A+: Manning 9 Brees 7 Young 6 Rivers/Rodgers/Staubach 5 Brady/Favre/Montana 4 Extra fun! Rivers from 2008-2010 (Qbs with at least 40 starts) https://imgur.com/a/nsYWJbF 1st in AV 1st in AV per game 4th in Completion % (3rd in the Qbs shown in the picture) 3rd in TDs T-12th in most INT (4th of QBs in picture) 1st in Rating 1st in Y/A (distance between 1st and 2nd is same from 2nd to 6th) 1st in ANY/A (distance from 1st to 2nd is slightly less than 2nd to 7th) 1st in Y/C 1st in TD% T-2nd in INT% (2nd of Qbs in picture) T-1st fewest pick sixes Rivers from 2008-2010 (minimum decreased to 30 starts, to include Brady's 2009-2010 and Warners 2008-2009) 1st in AV 1st in AV per game 6th in Completion % 3rd in TDs T-15th in most INT 1st in Rating 1st in Y/A (distance between 1st and 2nd is same from 2nd to 9th) Rivers "GREAT" supporting cast from 2008-2010, ranked by scrimmage yards Gates 2643 Jackson 2607 LT 2420 (3.6 YPC) Sproles 2299 Malcom Floyd 1958 Tolbert 1499 That's everybody with over 1000 over the course of THREE SEASONS btw 1st in ANY/A 1st in Y/C 1st in TD% T-3nd in INT% T-1st fewest pick-sixes PrOdUcT oF hIs ErA Rivers was the best QB in the league from 2008-2010 whether you like it or not. And yes, Russell Wilson is a HOFer. Edited February 7 by HerbertGOAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 11 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: If you think a top 50 QB is a likely HOFer (according to your poll) there is simply no way Rivers doesn't make it. He's top 25-30 at worst. Fouts > Rivers IMO No order, but you've got Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Johnny Unitas, Brett Favre, Otto Graham, Dan Marino, John Elway, Sammy Baugh, Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Steve Young, Bart Starr, Troy Airman, Ken Stabler, Fran Tarkenton, Kurt Warner, YA Tittle, Joe Namath, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Len Dawson, Norm Van Brocklin, Bobby Layne, Bob Griese, Sonny Jergensen, George Bland, Bob Waterfield all already in the HOF, then you have Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford, Patrick Mahomes who are all tracking as HOF'ers or potential HOF'ers with better cases then Rivers. Then you get into some of the borderline guys who are still not in, like Daunte Culpepper, Mike Vick (dog fight might kill his chance), Carson Palmer, Rich Gannon, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb. Rivers is in that HOVG grouping with Tony Romo, he just did it for longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, MaddHatter said: Fouts > Rivers IMO No order, but you've got Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Johnny Unitas, Brett Favre, Otto Graham, Dan Marino, John Elway, Sammy Baugh, Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Steve Young, Bart Starr, Troy Airman, Ken Stabler, Fran Tarkenton, Kurt Warner, YA Tittle, Joe Namath, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Len Dawson, Norm Van Brocklin, Bobby Layne, Bob Griese, Sonny Jergensen, George Bland, Bob Waterfield all already in the HOF, then you have Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford, Patrick Mahomes who are all tracking as HOF'ers or potential HOF'ers with better cases then Rivers. Then you get into some of the borderline guys who are still not in, like Daunte Culpepper, Mike Vick (dog fight might kill his chance), Carson Palmer, Rich Gannon, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb. Rivers is in that HOVG grouping with Tony Romo, he just did it for longer. Bolded the names of guys who Rivers is better than. Rivers is leagues above guys like Culpepper, Vick, Palmer, etc. Those guys aren't even in the same stratosphere. When any of those guys ranked near the top of essentially every stat over a 3 year span like Rivers did, get back to me. Not to mention, Rivers is near the top in adjusted rate stats as I demonstrated, which accounts for both era and pass attempts, devaluing both guys who played in friendlier era and threw the ball more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Carson Palmer was so goddamn snake bit in his career. It was a shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmad Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/4/2024 at 11:39 AM, seminoles1 said: Fouts: 1980s All-Decade Team, 2x 1st Team All-Pro, 2x 2nd Team All-Pro, 1982 OPOY, 6x Pro Bowler, 4x Passing Yards leader, 2x Passing TD leader, 1x Completion % leader Rivers: 2013 CPOY, 8x Pro Bowler, 1x Passer Rating leader, 1x Passing Yards leader, 1x Passing TD leader, 1x Completion % leader Yes, Fouts blows Rivers away on paper. Ah yes awards that are entirely based on media in an era where Phillip rivers played against and with some of if not the greatest era of QBs we've ever seen. Just because he wasn't "the best" during his era doesn't mean what he did isn't still amazing. If Rivers has a ring this conversation isn't even a debate. Also I'll take the 2 TDs to 1 INT ratio over 1:1 that fouts had. Seriously I feel like Win/Loss Record and turnovers matter a lot more than bulk stats and media awards. On 2/4/2024 at 12:16 PM, MagicMT said: You shouldn't get in the HOF if you don't have an All-Pro 1st team, that's crazy. Rivers never had an all-pro, how can he be considered for the HOF? The Hall is for the special players, and sorry but Rivers isn't in that category. Same thing with Wilson who only as 1 team second all-pro. Hall of Very Good but that stops there. There is only a 1/32 chance you win a 1st team all-pro every year. That's dumb. Hall of Fame and how famous is Phillip rivers? Name a whole body of water after him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 7 hours ago, Xmad said: Ah yes awards that are entirely based on media in an era where Phillip rivers played against and with some of if not the greatest era of QBs we've ever seen. Just because he wasn't "the best" during his era doesn't mean what he did isn't still amazing. If Rivers has a ring this conversation isn't even a debate. Also I'll take the 2 TDs to 1 INT ratio over 1:1 that fouts had. Seriously I feel like Win/Loss Record and turnovers matter a lot more than bulk stats and media awards. Yeah, that's why I said on paper, man. I also said this in my first post regarding the era Rivers played in: On 2/3/2024 at 10:03 PM, seminoles1 said: Fouts blows Rivers away on paper. Context would be Rivers was stuck in a crazy good QB era, but I don't think Rivers ends up getting in. I'm not debating who was more talented. But looking at their resume on paper, which was my point, Fouts is the clear Hall of Famer between the 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Being the better QB doesn't equal being in the HOF - Yes Rivers was a better QB than Eli Manning, but Eli is a HOF lock and Rivers, at best, is borderline and purely based on his bulk stats. Romo was a better QB than Eli Manning and he has no shot at the HOF. It's Hall of Fame, not Hall of Great 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, MaddHatter said: Being the better QB doesn't equal being in the HOF - Yes Rivers was a better QB than Eli Manning, but Eli is a HOF lock and Rivers, at best, is borderline and purely based on his bulk stats. Romo was a better QB than Eli Manning and he has no shot at the HOF. It's Hall of Fame, not Hall of Great You're 100% correct so please don't take my upcoming joke as a shot at your logic. But along those lines, I nominate Pat McAfee for Hall of Fame because he's one of the most fame-ous football players alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Rivers should have 0 shot at the Hall of Fame IMO. He only played at an All-Pro-level for that 3-year stretch. After that, he was just a more mistake-prone Kirk Cousins (no disrespect meant by that - both are good QBs, but Rivers fell off after that 3 year run regardless of where the blame lies). No impressive playoff victories. No single-game performances that people are going to remember or talk about 5 years from now. He was a good QB who had a great run. But he's not a Hall of Famer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 10 minutes ago, Soggust said: You're 100% correct so please don't take my upcoming joke as a shot at your logic. But along those lines, I nominate Pat McAfee for Hall of Fame because he's one of the most fame-ous football players alive. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 hours ago, Xmad said: There is only a 1/32 chance you win a 1st team all-pro every year. That's dumb. Huh? You act like every starting QB has the exact same chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/2/2024 at 8:39 PM, Forge said: Who would you put in the hall first, Stafford or Wilson? Tear the Hall of Fame down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 If you let Phillip Rivers that opens the floodgates to every borderline big stat guy. You let Rivers and then you almost have to let in guys like Stafford and Matt Ryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMT Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) I feel like Philip Rivers is the ultimate QB gatekeeper for HOF. If you're better than he was, you should proably be in. If you're not, you shouldn't. He's right there, and if the ball bounced his way a couple more time (SB title, or 1-2x all-pro / being top 3 at this position for a couple of years) he would probably be in. But at some point there has to be line drawn on what constitute a HOF career and to me Rivers fell just short of that (imaginary/super objective) threshold. Wilson was great but with the way his career is trending I think he's going to fall short of Rivers in terms of accomplishments and therefore wouldn't get in if I was a voter. Edited February 9 by MagicMT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 14 hours ago, MaddHatter said: Being the better QB doesn't equal being in the HOF - Yes Rivers was a better QB than Eli Manning, but Eli is a HOF lock and Rivers, at best, is borderline and purely based on his bulk stats. Romo was a better QB than Eli Manning and he has no shot at the HOF. It's Hall of Fame, not Hall of Great Noted. Tim Tebow, come on down and get your gold jacket! Brock Lesnar and Taylor Swift too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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