HTTRDynasty Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 4 hours ago, MKnight82 said: How is 2 mid round pick swaps for a guy that is at worst a decent backup QB "overpaying". The Seahawks absolutely robbed Washington in this trade. Do you think Howell is worth a 2nd round pick or something? Not sure how you can say Washington got "absolutely robbed" here. While I'm sad to see Sam go, I never thought we'd get more than a 3rd or 4th for him, which is essentially what this is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Do you think Howell is worth a 2nd round pick or something? Not sure how you can say Washington got "absolutely robbed" here. While I'm sad to see Sam go, I never thought we'd get more than a 3rd or 4th for him, which is essentially what this is. I don’t buy into the whole “value chart” value of flipping these picks. If you want a 3rd round value for Howell get a 3rd round pick straight up for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 That 2022 QB class is something else. Purdy is the only doing any real work, and he was the last pick of the draft! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Great trade for Seattle. Got someone who's now arguably the best backup QB in the NFL for super cheap the next 2 years. Not awful for Washington at all. Turned a 5th round pick into the value of a 4th round pick 2 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Howell sucks but is worth a flier as a backup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 minute ago, MKnight82 said: I don’t buy into the whole “value chart” value of flipping these picks. If you want a 3rd round value for Howell get a 3rd round pick straight up for him. They probably tried that but no one was biting. Looks like Seattle was willing to lean in a bit for a Lock replacement, and Peters knew it was the best offer he'd get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said: They probably tried that but no one was biting. Looks like Seattle was willing to lean in a bit for a Lock replacement, and Peters knew it was the best offer he'd get. Then just keep him. Dumping him for two mid round swaps is dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Minshew got back a 6th for two rookie contract years. I'd put Howell in the same bucket QB tier wise. Fine return for Washington, good move by Seattle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) I'm just shocked that Denver weren't in on this at that sort of price. A Late 3rd/Early 4th equivalent value is a great deal for Howell. At worst, he's a great backup. But i think in the right situation, he's shown flashes that he could still be a good starter. He's got all sorts of tools, toughness, and willingness to throw the ball around. If you get him into a system that protects him more effectively, and doesn't ask him to do quite as much with quite as little...he could really thrive. Not sure how Seattle shapes up on that scale, but for the price...why would you not pull the trigger on this? Frankly...the Seahawks are going to be well out of range for any of Williams/Maye/Daniels/McCarthy. And i don't actually see a huge difference from Nix/Penix to Howell. He's actually younger, but has a pretty decent NFL season as a starter passing for a ton of yards under his belt already (in a really poor situation). I actually think he's probably actually got more "upside" than Nix/Penix/Rattler. I mean...if you draft one of those old guys and get a comparable "up and down with big flashes of potential" first season as a starter out of them in a terrible situation, i'm not sure anyone would even really blink. Howell obviously has some turnovers to clean up and a few decisionmaking quirks that need to be ironed out. Who knows if that'll happen, but if you can do that...i think you've got a solid starting QB. I'd probably rather give Howell some leash to see what he's got, over continuing to tread water at best with old Geno at the helm. I hope they give Howell a legitimate shot to compete for that starting gig. I also think it's a good deal for the Washingtons though. Sam Howell as a backup does nothing for you, when you're drafting a new "QB of the Future" at #2. They're so deep in a rebuilding process, a cheap backup doesn't really matter to them. Everything is all about what this #2 Pick Quarterback (Williams/Daniels/Maye) does. Nobody cares what the backup does in that scenario. It'd just be a pure and completely unnecessary distraction, having an inexperienced young QB with starting aspirations as your "backup" or worse, having some sort of "competition" for the starter gig between the two. Vastly better to bring in a veteran backup and mentor who has really been through the ringer and also already has familiarity with the system being installed. That's a major upgrade for Washington at backup QB even if Mariota is a worse bet than Howell as an actual QB on the field at this point. Getting any sort of pick value upgrade lets Washington hopefully somewhat improve that caliber of talent they can put around their new QB for the future. Obviously a straight draft pick addition would've been better, but this is easier for the Seahawks to work around because they're not creating a pick deficit when they've got a ton of their own holes to fill. Giving up some "value" but still coming out of the draft with the same number of prospects to potentially fill roles. But it's basically just pure gravy for Washington on a guy who wasn't going to add any significant value to the direction the team is pivoting toward. And it eliminates the distraction it may have caused. Plus...they don't get stuck holding the bag like the Bears might with Fields. Where you end up stuck with a distraction and a depreciating asset that contributes nothing to your current direction. Edited March 15 by Tugboat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_W Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Seattle been pretty thin(and lucky) at backup for a decade. I want to see what coaching can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 11 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Then just keep him. Dumping him for two mid round swaps is dumb. What "value" does Sam Howell provide to Washington this season? The whole team is pivoting to whoever they draft at #2. Nothing the backup QB does on the field is really going to matter this season, or contribute positive toward the new direction that team is taking with their new QB of The Future. The far more positive impact a backup QB can have with a top pick rookie QB is to provide veteran mentorship and support. A guy who has been through a lot of things and can help guide the rookie, rather than a guy who is young, inexperienced, and still harboring strong Starter Aspirations to create a completely unproductive distraction. This pick swap gives them "value" in giving Washington better draft capital to go out and put pieces in place to build around the new QB. That's value added to the new mission for the team. Howell provides negative value to that cause if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Interesting that there seemed to be a bit of a bidding war: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 3 minutes ago, Tugboat said: What "value" does Sam Howell provide to Washington this season? The whole team is pivoting to whoever they draft at #2. Nothing the backup QB does on the field is really going to matter this season, or contribute positive toward the new direction that team is taking with their new QB of The Future. The far more positive impact a backup QB can have with a top pick rookie QB is to provide veteran mentorship and support. A guy who has been through a lot of things and can help guide the rookie, rather than a guy who is young, inexperienced, and still harboring strong Starter Aspirations to create a completely unproductive distraction. This pick swap gives them "value" in giving Washington better draft capital to go out and put pieces in place to build around the new QB. That's value added to the new mission for the team. Howell provides negative value to that cause if anything. I think Howell is a lot more positive influence to have in the QB room than a guy that literally quit on his team. Howell is also a backup plan if the rookie gets hurt or just plain sucks. Howell's contract is also significantly cheaper than the crappy backup they just signed. I can list a dozen ways he's more valuable than two mid round pick swaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 28 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: I think Howell is a lot more positive influence to have in the QB room than a guy that literally quit on his team. Howell is also a backup plan if the rookie gets hurt or just plain sucks. Howell's contract is also significantly cheaper than the crappy backup they just signed. I can list a dozen ways he's more valuable than two mid round pick swaps. I just don't see the value in having a guy who is in direct competition as a fellow young aspiring starter, with a #2 Pick guy. When you make that kind of investment for your franchise, you'd darn well better be "all in" on that direction. To me, the distraction of having a guy like Howell around is a net negative value for a rookie QB and that team. Having a guy looking over your shoulder every day who clearly wants and expects that he can take your job isn't setting up for success and playing loose football while learning on the job as a rookie NFL QB will inevitably have big ups and downs. Howell also doesn't have his legs under him in the NFL yet either, and especially not in this new system being installed...so he's absolutely useless as a guy to lean on for advice or support or mentorship, because he needs a lot more of that himself. It just becomes crabs in a bucket trying to climb over each other and neither gets out. That's not real "value". What you're talking about here is like...Urban Meyer level thinking. That was the way he saw things. And well...i wouldn't want to find myself aligned with that. Real "QB Competitions" between young guys are so dumb and basically fake. There's no way to make it "fair" other than splitting reps evenly, which just makes both worse. This isn't College ball. As far as the contract value...that provides absolutely no tangible value to Washington in their current state. They have oodles of cap space and nothing else really worth spending it on. The "value" in Howell's cheap contract is in what it might be worth to another team. Until you actually utilize that cheap contract value by squeezing the guy in up against the cap, or exchanging it for some "trade value", it really means nothing to Washington right now, or for the duration of term remaining on it. As far as a "backup plan" if the rookie gets hurt or just plain sucks...that's just cowardly hedging fluff. If the #2 pick gets hurt or just plain sucks...it's a lost season, no matter who the backup is. When you draft a guy at #2...that QB becomes the direction of your franchise and if it's going to succeed, you need to be "all in" on making sure that is as successful as possible. Hedging against that is pointless, if not actively counterproductive. If Sam Howell was the real "answer" for Washington, they'd have just kept him and passed on a QB at 2 or traded the pick for a haul, etc. But he was deemed "not the answer", so you move on. You don't just keep that in your back pocket as a distraction looming. If that #2 Pick QB isn't ready, or struggles, or goes down with injury...the best way to support them for the long-term health of your franchise is ultimately just to let it play out...take their lumps/get healthy...and ultimately collect a better draft pick along the way next year. Having Howell come in and do a better job than Mariota doesn't really do much for the direction of the franchise. At best, it makes things murkier and a lot more messy. Which isn't a good way to run a franchise. The only real tangible positive value you mention here...is that "mid round pick swap". Which has a generally accepted "value" to it. Which can be translated to putting a better piece in place around the #2 Pick QB for the future. Edited March 15 by Tugboat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 37 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Interesting that there seemed to be a bit of a bidding war: It's a bit interesting that the "winning bid" was the pick swap option. Surprising that none of the multiple teams wouldn't offer a straight up pick. But it's also entirely plausible that Washington really prioritized bumping that top pick up to a point where you've got a higher probability of getting a solid early Starter caliber player. It's also just more compelling capital or a jumping off point if you want to go up even further from there. I kind of look at these pick swaps as...once they start pushing up higher like this on the "high pick swap" that can make a real big difference in the quality of prospect available. Whereas...the "low pick swap"...honestly, boards tend to be so wildly all over the place by that point, it barely makes a difference in the quality of prospect you're likely to get. So there is real "value" in being on the "upgrade" side of things for the top pick in the swap. ie. This example...For Washington, that's probably ~24 extra names that will be on your board to choose from with that 3rd rounder compared to the 4th. Whereas #159 to #172 or whatever...you very well might end up picking the same darn prospect you like at either spot. 😆 Edited March 15 by Tugboat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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