Thoughts on Kwesi through ~3 seasons?

[swede700]

7 hours ago, viking said:

I voted B. He's been getting better year over year.

He's made some A+ moves (bringing in Flores & Moving on from Kirk) but also some head scratches (Poorish drafting, not getting the Jefferson deal done)

 

biggest plus is having the balls to admit that Kirk was never going to win a ring in Minnesota. We could have easily matched the Atlanta deal and kept kirk on for 2-4 years.

Last I checked, Jefferson is still on the team, so it can't be said that Kwesi didn't get the deal done, because the deadline hasn't been reached yet.  And really, the absolute deadline isn't until 2 years from now, considering they can franchise tag him.  Obviously, that's not the way to go to create a positive negotiation process, but it's still an available option. 

Edited April 30 by swede700

[AP_allday2869]

I love the aggressiveness with which Kwesi approached this last draft. Hopefully, he will continue to be aggressive in the future. I think he learned that accumulating picks isn't necessarily the way to go and that he values actual talent more than what they are potentially worth in draft picks. This can be seen with everything it took to get Dallas Turner, which I am totally okay with.

After this draft, Kwesi and KOC's plan is finally coming together. Now we can see what the competitive rebuild was all about. We have cornerstones at every position on offense, and a cornerstone on defense with Turner. We have gotten younger and cheaper, and dare I say, even with the loss of Hunter our pass rush has actually improved this offseason. 

I am so excited for what the future holds, but it really does depend on if our 1st round hits, which I think it will.

[PrplChilPill]

Better every year. That's good! I also would rather have a possibly elite first round player than a second and third round pick... Some of this picks were for hockenson, again, give me the I'm his prime veteran over day two picks. 

It appears his coaching hire was great. 

[Magnus-Viktor]

4 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

It may be year three, but I am still enjoying the breath of fresh air. You talk a lot about how Spielman left the team in a bad situation, and I don't disagree completely, but it is worth noting that Spielman didn't leave the cupboards bare.  He left a veteran team that was in win-now mode more than a team focused on the future, but I want a team that has a GM That will focus on the present more than the future sometimes -- especially when the time was right.  Spielman was giving it his best shot with Cousins.

The future cupboard wasn't empty either. Justin Jefferson is a huge piece.  The great record in KAMs first year was Spielman's team -- KAM didn't do much to improve it that year. Hockenson was nice, but if that is all a GM does to improve a team in a year it's pretty bad.  Cupboards must be stocked at a rate much faster than one Hockenson a year.

Spielman was kept around several years too long. KAM has stood out both positively and negatively at times, but mostly not stood out at all. In the next year or two things will break one way or the other for him, but for now I have him at a C and I am happy to see how things work with him for at least another year (probably two).  If he hasn't stood out positively more by then it will be time to move on. Like all GMs, a lot will come down to whether he solves the QB situation.

I agree that one Hockenson a year doesn't do much, even if he is an elite player.  100%

Agree that Spielman was kept around too long.  I would've fired him years sooner.  All of those trade backs every year in an attempt to amass every single pick in the 7th round was enough for me.  Total failure at addressing QB year after year.  I really liked him and Zimmer at one time, but that had definitely run its course a while before they were both gone.  I mentioned in one of the comments that they had Jefferson, which is definitely not nothing.  However, if you look at the roster, who did they have that was both young and good, aside from 3 OL and Jefferson?  I can't think of anyone except Hunter, who was always wanting more money and/or injured.  

McCarthy being a success (or not) will make a huge difference in how he's perceived, right or wrong.  The combination of the defense looking MUCH better than expected last year, the weapons on offense, the solid OL and a good coaching staff, combined with potentially having an adequate young QB has made me optimistic for the Vikings for the first time in a long time.  

[Magnus-Viktor]

3 hours ago, vikesfan89 said:

Not drafting Levis was more on KOC I think then Kwesi. Hopefully they got a better long term starter in McCarthy.  Maybe the Jets bluffed trading back with someone else but I don't blame the Vikings for not taking that chance. The extra first round pick gave them a better chance to trade for number 3 but it didn't guarantee that the Patriots would take it.  They got a potentially great player with it so it's hard to complain. 

 

 

 

What makes you think that was more KOC?  Just your personal impression, or did you read/hear something about it?  

It is very true that they had to have a willing partner.  I personally have seen a lot of Drake Maye (I went out of my way to watch UNC games due to liking his general attributes the last 2 seasons), and a fair amount of JJ McCarthy (I watch a lot of Big 10 in general - definitely my favorite conference), and Maye passed the eyeball test more.  I guess if I think I'd rather give up so much for Maye, then New England may also think that they'd rather have him than that lucrative trade package too.  I was never 100% sold on Levis, but at #23, I would've rolled the dice.  McCarthy at 23 I would've liked a lot more than I do at #10 lol.  I really hope that he turns into a stud, because he's a likable enough guy, and he's here.  

I had mixed feelings on trading up to #17.  The guy was supposed to be a potentially elite edge rusher.  You can never have too many of those, and they're easily top 5 in positional importance also.  Will be interesting to see how this shakes out.  

[PrplChilPill]

He decides who they draft. Listening to the coaches is a sign of a good leader, not a weakness. 

[Magnus-Viktor]

3 hours ago, swede700 said:

Who's Kwefi?  Is that some new fan-dangled upgraded Wifi? 

Seriously though...I view Kwesi as getting better every day and every year.  And that's what I expect.  Is he perfect?  Absolutely not..the first draft was pretty terrible, the 2nd one was a little better and I believe this one will turn out better as well.  He's got the cap situation part figured out, which was part of what he was hired to do. 

And BTW, Levis and McCarthy aren't comparable in the least.  While I wouldn't have minded Levis, McCarthy has far more upside than Levis and actually a lot less to work on. It also helps that McCarthy is a full 2 yrs younger coming into the NFL than Levis was. 

Haha, I hate that guy's name.  I can NEVER get it right.  My bad!  

I would agree that he's getting better.  I mean you can't get any worse than the first draft.  2nd draft was better, but still not very smart position-wise and still not very good.  This one, due to the cap situation and everything else involved, is hopefully a better example of what we'll get moving forward.  

I'd say that Levis and McCarthy are very comparable.  NFL.com's draft profiles support that too.  They received a similar overall grade.  6.34 vs 6.40.  Definitely the same ballpark.  Will be plus starter, vs will be good starter.  Levis has much better physical tools.  McCarthy has age on his side.  

[Magnus-Viktor]

2 hours ago, wcblack34 said:

Resigning Cousins was absolutely NOT a mistake. It was the only thing that made sense at the time, he led them to 13 wins in 2022, and without a torn achilles last season, he likely would have led them into the playoffs and would have been in the MVP conversation. That was a stellar move on Kwesi's part. 

 

I disagree.  The goal is to win championships.  Captain Checkdown isn't winning you anything.  Never has.  Never will.  Good riddance.  He's a great passer when things are on script.  When things break down, as they do in high pressure situations and against elite teams, he implodes.  Addition by subtraction getting rid of him, if for no other reason than you can put a better team around his replacement due to having more cap space because you're not paying a game manager QB, franchise QB money.

[swede700]

 

[vikesfan89]

2 hours ago, swede700 said:

I believe so...although it was reported that they were willing to give up the farm to get Richardson last year.

Yes. But like this year they didn't really have a shot at 1 of the top 3 QBs

[vikesfan89]

I do wonder what they would have done if Kirk didn't get hurt and they made the playoffs.  Would they have just had to give up more to get into the top 10 to get McCarthy? I think Cousins would have gotten just as much not more guaranteed money so I feel like the Vikings still would have let him go

[Magnus-Viktor]

2 hours ago, swede700 said:

It has now been reported that they did, in fact, offer the 2025 1st rd pick (in addition to #11 and #23) to move up for Maye.  NE balked at giving back 2 mid-round picks, which is what the Vikings asked for...and I actually don't have an issue with not making that move if they refused to give back a couple of mid-rounders...it is what it is.  I'm sure people would have ripped Kwesi for not getting back any additional picks if he had pulled the trigger on that.

Where did you see that?  It makes me feel better knowing they at least tried.  It sounds like they did the right thing here, in at least attempting to take the next step on moving up, rather than getting the 2nd 1st and then nothing.  

I like Maye, so I would've done that deal without the mid rounders.  But, as I said, I'm biased for Maye.  In the end, if you don't have a QB, you usually have nothing.  That's why, even though the Vikings have usually been a pretty solid team, in my lifetime they've never been a serious contender outside of one year once a decade where they get to the NFCC and choke, because they've never had that QB year after year.  So you get '98 with old man Cunningham.  '09 with old man Favre.  '17 with a game manager in Keenum.  Moon for a year was good, but they weren't serious contenders then in the mid 90s.  '00 was Culpepper, and that was more of a fluke due to a great team around him.  '04 was his only really good year (where they went 8-8) and then he got hurt.  

That's my long-winded way of saying that I want a real franchise QB here for the next decade or two, so if that's what it takes to get it, and Maye would be that guy, I'd do it.  Of course, if you gut your team too much, that'll kill your chances too.  

[Magnus-Viktor]

2 hours ago, VikeManDan said:

It has been widely reported that the Texans approached the Vikings about 1.23 not the other way around. Not sure if you were implying any which way the deal happened but figured I'd point that out if you hadn't heard.

I hadn't heard that.  I was shocked when I was toying around on the draft simulators and saw the Vikings had another first round pick!  I guess, since I hadn't heard anything about how the deal came about, I assumed that the Vikings did it to try and move up for a QB.  I thought it was a very odd move to move up before the draft like that.  

[Magnus-Viktor]

17 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

I do wonder what they would have done if Kirk didn't get hurt and they made the playoffs.  Would they have just had to give up more to get into the top 10 to get McCarthy? I think Cousins would have gotten just as much not more guaranteed money so I feel like the Vikings still would have let him go

Makes me glad that Cousins got hurt just thinking about it.  He wasn't a winner, so better off without him.  Maybe if he hadn't gotten hurt and they were picking around 25-30, they would've stayed put and maybe Nix would've been available.  The scary part is thinking about another 4 years with Cousins on the books for $50 mill and almost all guaranteed, if not all of it again.  I think he signed 4 for 180 this time, or an average of 45?  Without the injury issue, would've been even more?  No thanks!  I'd rather have Christian Ponder for a year than Cousins that that price for 4.

[Cearbhall]

45 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

I do wonder what they would have done if Kirk didn't get hurt and they made the playoffs.  Would they have just had to give up more to get into the top 10 to get McCarthy? I think Cousins would have gotten just as much not more guaranteed money so I feel like the Vikings still would have let him go

I am not convinced that McCarthy wouldn't have been around to be drafted at the bottom of the first, had the Vikings not selected him.  The team may have been more inclined to pay Cousins, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have still drafted McCarthy with the late first round slot they would have been at had they made the playoffs.